Want Equal Engines?

"J'-remy

Member
most people would rather gripe to their friends that everyone up front is cheating than buy the winners motor and get beat using it the next week. a lot of people in the back are cheating and not winning which is why they cry foul and not claim the motor.
 

twostroketoowoke

Site Supporter
What is the issue with the claim rule?
Nothing is wrong with the claim rule. On the other side of the coin, nobody ever wants to claim even when they know they got outright beat by a cheater. See it all the time here. Everybody would rather cheat up their stuff with the same cash it would take to claim the winner. Then it becomes a rocket class and it dies off because eventually the claim rule drops off with no one claiming over the whole course of a season.
 
Call me a Lier but I guarantee you infact I would bet you a little cash even that there are more people cheating that are finished worst than 3rd than the ones that finish 1st 2nd and 3rd. People in top 3 know there karts, know how to be a good driver, have a strong LEGAL motor but most important Understand Tires and how to prep them!
 

wrecit

Member
Agree with pred racer. News flash if you are cheating and still loosing there's a good chance you are not nearly as good as you think you are. Cheating gains maybe half a hp. That can be overcome with skill and knowledge.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Site Supporter
Agree with pred racer. News flash if you are cheating and still loosing there's a good chance you are not nearly as good as you think you are. Cheating gains maybe half a hp. That can be overcome with skill and knowledge.
If you're cheating and only making 1/2 HP more, then you're not very good at cheating either.
For instance, a box stock Predator makes, what, 8 HP? I recently did a stock appearing clone for Max that went 17.4 CHP. Easily double the HP, and I undoubtedly know less about Predators than most builders. Now, it clearly won't pass tech and standing near it on the grid should alert anyone with ears to hear the difference. :)

A $150 claim would curtail expensive builds and cheat-ups in the box stock classes, but then you've got the stigma of "that guy" who claims an engine. Look, no one wants to be "that guy." Sure, there will be the occasional belligerent jerk who'll run his mouth at the track then pull out a wad of cash just to make life miserable for every other competitor, but more times than not, people simply don't want to deal with all the drama.

Look, there will always be the next cheaper engine. Personally, I think we've got too many engine choices already! Diluting the classes further only makes for a longer night. The Briggs LO206 has been the best ("equal" and "affordable") spec engine to come along in all my years (50+ in karting,) and yet it has not exactly been embraced by the oval karting world. It totally transformed the sprint market and made a name for itself in the winged outlaw classes over the last 10 years, yet dirt flat kart guys just haven't gotten on board yet. You want "equal?" It's already offered. I'm just not sure that's what the oval guys really want. Remember, "equal" is what started Ted's thread.

I concur with so many other posts that GOOD TECH is what is needed in ALL classes, spec, sealed, claimer, blueprinted, or not.
Without good tech, we don't stand a chance at "equal," no matter what engine comes along.


-----
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Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
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www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
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"J'-remy

Member
Look, there will always be the next cheaper engine. Personally, I think we've got too many engine choices already! Diluting the classes further only makes for a longer night. The Briggs LO206 has been the best ("equal" and "affordable") spec engine to come along in all my years (50+ in karting,) and yet it has not exactly been embraced by the oval karting world. It totally transformed the sprint market and made a name for itself in the winged outlaw classes over the last 10 years, yet dirt flat kart guys just haven't gotten on board yet. You want "equal?" It's already offered. I'm just not sure that's what the oval guys really want. Remember, "equal" is what started Ted's thread.
the LO206 has not caught on because its $1000.00 by the time it hits the track. the ghost at $300.00, and going by the recent posted dyno numbers, is a bargain comparatively. I would love love love to race the lo206 but i'm not going to be able to convince a bunch of people to invest $1000.00 or even $600.00 in the off chance of creating a class when everyone already has a predator. If the ghost takes off you may be able to convince the track to let the two compete in the same class and let the best engine win but that's an uphill battle. Another issue with the briggs is How do you get one?? i have a better chance picking up a Ghost, a Predator or a clone than i do an lo206.
a big time national level engine builder just charged me 1175.00 for an AKRA clone. $175.00 more than an L206. that's why it hasn't caught on.
 

Ted Hamilton

Helmet Painter / Racer
Mountain Creek here in NC has a LO205 Champ class. I'm curious to see how it does. And I'd far rather spend $1000 once for 3 years of running a LO206 than whatever a clone or Pred costs over a season, plus refreshes, every season. And yes, people are winning with engines that old. Some even argue they're better aged block with a fresh valve job... But our local sprint track doesn't tech 'em, so the LO206 cheating began and killed the perception of parity.
 
Mountain Creek here in NC has a LO205 Champ class. I'm curious to see how it does. And I'd far rather spend $1000 once for 3 years of running a LO206 than whatever a clone or Pred costs over a season, plus refreshes, every season. And yes, people are winning with engines that old. Some even argue they're better aged block with a fresh valve job... But our local sprint track doesn't tech 'em, so the LO206 cheating began and killed the perception of parity.
That is my point. You can run any engines you want but the best way to keep engines equal is TECH but that is to hard for some tracks. Some tracks would rather have more racers than scare off people running illegal motors. But just wait those tracks will keep having lower and lower kart counts the more they don't tech.
 

JPMKarting

Site Supporter
the LO206 has not caught on because its $1000.00 by the time it hits the track. the ghost at $300.00, and going by the recent posted dyno numbers, is a bargain comparatively. I would love love love to race the lo206 but i'm not going to be able to convince a bunch of people to invest $1000.00 or even $600.00 in the off chance of creating a class when everyone already has a predator. If the ghost takes off you may be able to convince the track to let the two compete in the same class and let the best engine win but that's an uphill battle. Another issue with the briggs is How do you get one?? i have a better chance picking up a Ghost, a Predator or a clone than i do an lo206.
a big time national level engine builder just charged me 1175.00 for an AKRA clone. $175.00 more than an L206. that's why it hasn't caught on.
While true, that the big time clone is going to need valve springs every 2 races, a rebuild every 8-10 races, and god knows what in the offseason when rules updates hit.

That $1000 206 is $1000 one time, and can be raced for 3+ seasons. There are guys around here with 5-6 year old 206's.
 

"J'-remy

Member
Mountain Creek here in NC has a LO205 Champ class. I'm curious to see how it does. And I'd far rather spend $1000 once for 3 years of running a LO206 than whatever a clone or Pred costs over a season, plus refreshes, every season. And yes, people are winning with engines that old. Some even argue they're better aged block with a fresh valve job... But our local sprint track doesn't tech 'em, so the LO206 cheating began and killed the perception of parity.
From what i've been told by a few big engine builders is that the importers of the clone keep the briggs from taking off. some prehistoric reptile cam manufacturer is making too much money
 

Prorookie34

Member
Claim rule has proved it doesn't work. some cheaters refuse to sell their engines and most tracks don't ban them as they should.
Sounds like a track that loves low kart counts and hates making money. Refuse to sell your engine to me, and you'll be racing yourself next week.
 

rainman

Site Supporter
Sounds like a track that loves low kart counts and hates making money. Refuse to sell your engine to me, and you'll be racing yourself next week.
Southeast has actually been the other way. Tracks preferred to keep the cheaters till they got rid of this buy rule at most tracks. Didn't affect their numbers so bad. Maybe most were cheating. When you see builders selling OTB engines that's not a good sign.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Site Supporter
the Lo206 biggest problem over the past couple of years is.... OUT OF STOCK
I can't argue with that. We've sold more 206s already this year than likely the last 2 years combined. We currently have a backlog of orders for them and as soon as we get the next batch of engines in, they will sell out within a day or two.
The last 2 years, availability has certainly been an issue.
The previous 8 years to that, stock was not an issue...and that was PRIOR to the Predator and well before the Ghost.
Given that, I don't think availability is the reason that the 206 hasn't taken off on ovals.
I'm convinced that most oval racers do not want "equal" engines. They would prefer to be able to buy an "advantage" in the engine department.

Be sure to compare apples to apples when looking at prices from 206s to whatever other flavor of engine out there.
Most 206 builders/tuners offer the engine as a race-ready package, ie $35 spec air filter, spec pipe and muffler, chain guard, throttle kit, etc. Some even offer it with a spec clutch for that price. As Ted said, the value is in the maintenance cost. We've got customers with 10 year old LO206 engines that are still competitive/winning. Rebuilds are $125labor +parts (head gasket, valve springs, inlet needle, spark plug, fuel line & fuel filter.) $175-$185 rebuilds aren't too hard to take once a year even for the local Saturday night racer.

But you can cheat up a 206 just as easily as you can any other engine....that's why I stress the importance of good tech.

Carlson Motorsports Race-Ready L206.jpeg
 
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laser3kw

Member
I'm convinced that most oval racers do not want "equal" engines. They would prefer to be able to buy an "advantage" in the engine department.
Truth! well said!
BTW- how much is the LO206 pictured^^^^?
I keep hearing (here) "$1000" or more. If the over the counter price is $600 (for a precision, hand built, spec / measurement controlled engine) then what is the $400 for? In the picture I see pipe, air filter, throttle linkage, clutch guard (and the "2 tenths" CRE sticker :giggle:).
I assume some engine prep / tune / adjust? Just asking so I can keep track of the apples to oranges debates.
 

"J'-remy

Member
Truth! well said!
BTW- how much is the LO206 pictured^^^^?
I keep hearing (here) "$1000" or more. If the over the counter price is $600 (for a precision, hand built, spec / measurement controlled engine) then what is the $400 for? In the picture I see pipe, air filter, throttle linkage, clutch guard (and the "2 tenths" CRE sticker :giggle:).
I assume some engine prep / tune / adjust? Just asking so I can keep track of the apples to oranges debates.
https://cometkartsales.com/Briggs-Engines/
https://www.jrpwracing.net/product/briggs-lo206-jrpw-version/
https://www.msquaredkarting.com/store/engine-packages/briggs-lo206/
take your pick the Lo206 already offers a pay the builder to give you an advantage price tag
 
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