Weird weights on the scales?

alvin l nunley

Premium User
Al,

I believe what SoCo Tire is pointing out is that chassis, tires, weight, wheels, spindles, and axles have all changed pretty dramatically over the last couple of decades.

If your experience with a "kart that worked really well" was on Goodyear Bluestreaks or Carlisle tires, on a kart that was 36" wide and weighed 115 lbs.... well, things have dramatically changed. I suppose a valid question would be: did you ever try to change the front end on the kart you built to incorporate any kingpin inclination? To be perfectly honest, back a long time ago, I think one of the reasons we didn't see KPI was because the chassis and the spindles were easier to build without it.

PM
Well you're right, they are easier to build that way, and it was a consideration when I built it. I looked hard and long at what was being accomplished with kingpin inclination. My conclusion was; it's not necessary. So I built the first kart without it, and guess what, it worked, really really well. At the 1975 Quincy Nationals, I qualified 3rd in 2 classes, and that was against 3 of the best drivers in karting. Lynn haddock, Rick Gifford and Ernie Fisher. Lynn haddock had fast time in Reed open with Rick Gifford 2nd. Rick had fast time in Mac 101 with Ernie Fisher 2nd. The 1975 Nationals was my first Nationals.
 
"Hands-on"? None! But in the previous 20 years, quite a bit. Now let me ask you; how much experience have you had building karts in the last 20 years? I'm especially interested in your experience with karts that had no kingpin inclination! Understand I don't care if you built them or not!
Im not a builder and dont claim to be. I do just fine letting those folks who build them do all the work in that department.
As for experience in recent years, as a tire man ive won at some of the biggest races in the country, with multiple drivers.
I know multiple owners who actually build the most winningest of karts today on the market, Umax, Millenium, PRC, Charger, etc., etc.
Theres testing on these karts all year around, as karting here in the Carolinas is big business. Staying out front, and on top of the game, is as much a matter of importance here as it is with any major corporate business.
 

paulkish

old fart
V ???

Is it still scaling the same or did you find out why and correct it?

Your getting a lot of banter back and forth on it which is very interesting but i'm sure everyone is wanting to know if it's fixed.
And what fixed it?

thanks


Just pick up my first tag kart (used 2015 tony kart). It fits me well and is track ready. I tossed it on the scales for a check and it looks pretty well balanced. However I noticed when I turn the wheel it loads the same side rear. That is something 100% foreign to me. When I turn right I would expect the LR to see more weight not the RR. Can someone help me understand this dynamic? Thanks.
 

paulkish

old fart
Yes does same thing turning both sides. Scales were double checked because I expected the caster to unload the inside. Cant wrap my head around why it loads the inside.
Has it always done it or maybe did you just get scales and it's the way their working out for you?

Might be some sort of bind between the kart/wheels/tires/etc. binding when the wheel is turned.
I think some use turn tables to put the fronts on maybe if you lift the front, turn the wheel and then set it back down it may be different?

don't know hoping to find out what it was from you
It's got to be something simple and a duh moment. ... :)
 

paulkish

old fart
Im not a builder and dont claim to be. I do just fine letting those folks who build them do all the work in that department.
As for experience in recent years, as a tire man ive won at some of the biggest races in the country, with multiple drivers.
I know multiple owners who actually build the most winningest of karts today on the market, Umax, Millenium, PRC, Charger, etc., etc.
Theres testing on these karts all year around, as karting here in the Carolinas is big business. Staying out front, and on top of the game, is as much a matter of importance here as it is with any major corporate business.
"Hands-on"? None! But in the previous 20 years, quite a bit. Now let me ask you; how much experience have you had building karts in the last 20 years? I'm especially interested in your experience with karts that had no kingpin inclination! Understand I don't care if you built them or not!
arguing back and forth bout i'm better then you or not doesn't help find the answer
Were all racers on here and all if they don't should be of the mind set that their always first unless something beyond their control happens. ... :)

This is a sprint lefty righty question not a LTO question.
Let's help out and find and answer for the thread starter, it's a very interesting question.
Al gets beat up often for throwing sprint logic/theory/experience wrongly into the LTO arena.
In this case he's probably better versed on it then any of us. ... :)
I'm right and your wrong because i'm better then you is a way to present bs.

I like very much the "YOUR WRONG AND HERE'S WHY!) answers best.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Yes does same thing turning both sides. Scales were double checked because I expected the caster to unload the inside. Cant wrap my head around why it loads the inside.
If it does both sides the same . It may be correct .
I wonder also is this 10* steering input or full lock ?
Full lock our Dino did some strange wheel movments .
Need a sprint expert to confirm or deny .
Maybe a cracked chassis member ?
 

paulkish

old fart
Full lock our Dino did some strange wheel movments .
That's why I brought up Ackerman.
There's ackerman by the numbers and definition and then there what I call "Ackerman effect" created by tie rod positioning on the steering shaft.

Yep they do produce some strange wheel movement.
I think it's so it jacks weight and jacks the kart around in a way that if you screw up driving you can crank it all the way one way or another to maybe save it. Or in some sprint racing circumstances it will help in specific racing situations.

... maybe???

It it's total lock the V's talking about it may give strange numbers when on scales.
But it's a guess too.

Maybe Gary10 could help out here?
 
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