Box Stock

Well here it is

1) Burning propylene oxide produces carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and water.
2) If you smell something on the grid, it's most likely not propylene Oxide.
3) Adding propylene oxide to non oxygenated fuel will lower exhaust emissions.
 
racing promotor said:
Since it's been awhile since we've had a thread with a good debate, let's continue.
Am I correct in what I'm hearing from some, let's say someone running a plate class drills out the plate and get's caught, get's DQed of course BUT continues for 6 weeks in a row getting caught which changed the out come of every race, and all that should be done is say all well cheating is cheating and no further penalties should apply ever.
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Personally, I think it should be on a scale. First offense, DQ, Second 2 races, third 4 races, fourth, remainder of the season, 5th offense, calendar year and that concurring season. Meaning if you hit your 5th offense this Saturday, you miss all races until Jun 26, 2022, AND you miss the remainder of the 2022 season. So at 5 repeat offenses, you don't race until 2023.

I also think there should be a rule for doing something to intentionally hurt the sport. Similar to Robert Ballou's suspension from USAC a few years ago for bashing eldora all over social media.

In the instance of someone being illegal in different ways every race... example. Racer X has an illegal head, then a bad rod, then carb, then fuel, then cam, etc. Several offenses by the same person on different parts. I feel that instance would fall on the promoter/race director to determine what is going on. Perhaps all the party is allowed to run is RWYB for the rest of the season, I don't know. I just know that lifetime bans aren't good for the sport.
 
This post has become the Baptist post of 4 cycle, you want to make different penalties for different degrees of cheating, when in fact under racers standards we all are going straight to …. I no way condone cheating but if i put a 212 crankshaft in my clone knowing that the stroke is more and is blatantly cheating, is that going to get me a life sentence ??? The digatron FT - 64 will catch this mixture every time! But there is yet a device to tell what’s in the fuel without sending it to a lab for analysis, most lab test are just a benchmark, and that is exactly what the FT-64 does… a benchmark, now to send a sample to a lab and test for the ingredients without knowing the contents, that cost is astronomical, that’s why we don’t do it…the Fact of the matter is that as long as there is competitive racing there will be cheaters, there’s already more out there than you’d like to think !!
 
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As far as this being caught by the Digatron 64 or the newer dual test Digatron. I had both instruments and if mixed properly it will not be caught when the gauge is calibrated to a spec fuel. I stood in a tech shed with a highly respected techman and demonstrated how to mix it. He could not find a way to catch it. No smell difference, no color and was dead on the readings for the "Spec Gas". I dyno tested it and gained .9hp on an unrestricted clone. A local chemistry professor checked it and said it was less harmful even when combusted than "Pump Fuel" and considerably less than Goat Pee prep.

I started this topic because this was closely held knowledge. Now it is general knowledge, everybody knows so the advantage is now gone. I am sure some will be displeased that their secret advantage is done for. I don't care if anyone is mad and as I am no longer involved in karting in any way. There are no repercussions for me, so I may just release some other secrets.

The arrogant self righteousness and clueless hypocrisy of some responders is very entertaining. Please carry on.
 
I think we should be able to add fuel scents to our fuel. But it is also illegal. I wouldnt mind going to the track and it smells like fruit punch at the end of the night. Point is that if the rules state that you are not to add additives then dont. A lifetime ban is harsh. Like i said before make them run the rwyb class the rest of the season.
 
Renegade said:
As far as this being caught by the Digatron 64 or the newer dual test Digatron. I had both instruments and if mixed properly it will not be caught when the gauge is calibrated to a spec fuel. I stood in a tech shed with a highly respected techman and demonstrated how to mix it. He could not find a way to catch it. No smell difference, no color and was dead on the readings for the "Spec Gas". I dyno tested it and gained .9hp on an unrestricted clone. A local chemistry professor checked it and said it was less harmful even when combusted than "Pump Fuel" and considerably less than Goat Pee prep.

I started this topic because this was closely held knowledge. Now it is general knowledge, everybody knows so the advantage is now gone. I am sure some will be displeased that their secret advantage is done for. I don't care if anyone is mad and as I am no longer involved in karting in any way. There are no repercussions for me, so I may just release some other secrets.

The arrogant self righteousness and clueless hypocrisy of some responders is very entertaining. Please carry on.
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You are correct, adding Propylene Oxide to gasoline will actually lower exhaust gas emissions. The doom and gloom toxic exhaust stories on here are funny.
 
found this on the net about propylene oxide

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/00002F32.txt?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=EPA&Index=1986 Thru 1990&Docs=&Query=&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=&IntQFieldOp=0&ExtQFieldOp=0&XmlQuery=&File=D:\ZYFILES\INDEX DATA\86THRU90\TXT\00000002\00002F32.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h|-&MaximumDocuments=1&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r85g16/r85g16/x150y150g16/i500&Display=hpfr&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&slide

and this;

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe?ZyAction=ZyActionS&Client=EPA&Index=2016+Thru+2020&Index=2011+Thru+2015&Index=2000+Thru+2005&Index=2006+Thru+2010&Index=Prior+to+1976&Index=1976+Thru+1980&Index=1981+Thru+1985&Index=1986+Thru+1990&Index=1991+Thru+1994&Index=1995+Thru+1999&Index=Hardcopy+Publications&Docs=&Query=propylene+oxide+polyols+polyether+glycol&Time=&SearchMethod=2&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=&IntQFieldOp=0&ExtQFieldOp=0&File=&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h|-&MaximumDocuments=15&MaximumPages=1&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r85g16/r85g16/x150y150g16/i500&Display=hpfr&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results page
 
Renegade said:
As far as this being caught by the Digatron 64 or the newer dual test Digatron. I had both instruments and if mixed properly it will not be caught when the gauge is calibrated to a spec fuel. I stood in a tech shed with a highly respected techman and demonstrated how to mix it. He could not find a way to catch it. No smell difference, no color and was dead on the readings for the "Spec Gas". I dyno tested it and gained .9hp on an unrestricted clone. A local chemistry professor checked it and said it was less harmful even when combusted than "Pump Fuel" and considerably less than Goat Pee prep.

I started this topic because this was closely held knowledge. Now it is general knowledge, everybody knows so the advantage is now gone. I am sure some will be displeased that their secret advantage is done for. I don't care if anyone is mad and as I am no longer involved in karting in any way. There are no repercussions for me, so I may just release some other secrets.

The arrogant self righteousness and clueless hypocrisy of some responders is very entertaining. Please
Renegade said:
As far as this being caught by the Digatron 64 or the newer dual test Digatron. I had both instruments and if mixed properly it will not be caught when the gauge is calibrated to a spec fuel. I stood in a tech shed with a highly respected techman and demonstrated how to mix it. He could not find a way to catch it. No smell difference, no color and was dead on the readings for the "Spec Gas". I dyno tested it and gained .9hp on an unrestricted clone. A local chemistry professor checked it and said it was less harmful even when combusted than "Pump Fuel" and considerably less than Goat Pee prep.

I started this topic because this was closely held knowledge. Now it is general knowledge, everybody knows so the advantage is now gone. I am sure some will be displeased that their secret advantage is done for. I don't care if anyone is mad and as I am no longer involved in karting in any way. There are no repercussions for me, so I may just release some other secrets.

The arrogant self righteousness and clueless hypocrisy of some responders is very entertaining. Please carry on.
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Well I could be wrong but I don't think I am and I'm putting this out there for the tech guys ...I think the cheap old school GAS CHECK would easily catch this
In a marked cc tube ad 30 cc of methonal 30cc of distilled water and 30 cc of gas to be checked agitate mixer and when settled back out you should have 30 cc of gas separate most things that are added to gas to increase hp don't mix well with gas and will be drawn out with methonal and water and because you are adding 20% methonal to this mixture it will definitely drop the 30cc of gas level in tube
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I could be wrong benny but I don't think I am and I will put this out there for tech guys...most things that are added to gas to increase hp don't mix well with gas ...if the old school gas check us used this mixture will not pass ....in a measured tube ad 30cc of methonal 30cc of distilled water and 30cc of gas to be checked agitate and after settling you should have 30cc of gas with this mixture you will definitely have alot less gas because the 20% methonal will be drawn out of gas and lower gas level in test tube and the other chemical is going with the methonal also correct me if I'm wrong .
 
Hopefully someone will come up with a easy saturday night test. The point is, it is now no longer a secret. I noticed that a few were irritated that I revealed this. Well knowledge is power, so what are you going to do with it?
 
There is a test. It’s called the 64 only allowing a 10 point variance from spec fuel. If ya can’t afford the 64 then the hydrometer comes into play. Less expensive, little more time consuming but effective. I am experimenting with the water test and will share when I get it finished.
 
Menace61 said:
I think very few people on here would support the "Banned for life" statement.
I do agree with Ken though when it comes to adding banned chemicals to your fuel. I for one do not want to sit on the grid and have to breath that while waiting to get on the track.
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Couple karts in my kids jr class will make you sick if you sit behind em.. and they have some bice smoke coming out before they get on the track.. and theybjust be like oh this motor is just tired,haha but then tthey win by half track on a tired motor...
 
Mulearacing said:
Couple karts in my kids jr class will make you sick if you sit behind em.. and they have some bice smoke coming out before they get on the track.. and theybjust be like oh this motor is just tired,haha but then tthey win by half track on a tired motor...
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Sometimes some of the fastest motors out there will smoke more than any motor on the facility. I bet alot of the guys on here could say the same thing that some of the fastest motors they have ever seen smoked a bunch. That isnt always the case but sometimes the fastest motors smoke like crazy. You guys just need to be sure you have one of the best setup karts out there and the fastest tires out there every weekend and stop worrying about other peoples stuff. There are alot of people out there that cheat but a guy on youtube that I watch always says "Watch your own bobber" everyone needs to stop worring about what the other racers and just focus on your own stuff and try to be as fast as you can while still being legal.
 
Smoking engines can easily fail tech if the oil ring is to loose to hold the piston in the cylinder. Loose engines ( ones that smoke ) allow oil performance additives to get past the loose rings and create horsepower. Thus the reason for the oil ring ruling on the piston. I just had one on the Dyno in my shop that smoked somewhat but not bad. When I took it down the oil ring wouldn’t hold the piston from falling through. Thus it was “ out of spec” lol
 
MO Predator Racer said:
Sometimes some of the fastest motors out there will smoke more than any motor on the facility. I bet alot of the guys on here could say the same thing that some of the fastest motors they have ever seen smoked a bunch. That isnt always the case but sometimes the fastest motors smoke like crazy. You guys just need to be sure you have one of the best setup karts out there and the fastest tires out there every weekend and stop worrying about other peoples stuff. There are alot of people out there that cheat but a guy on youtube that I watch always says "Watch your own bobber" everyone needs to stop worring about what the other racers and just focus on your own stuff and try to be as fast as you can while still being legal.
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Unfortunately a lot of people don't put in the R&D like others do. It takes a lot of hard work to be up front. Our team focuses on US..... not everyone else. And like you said that's what more people should do. Or.... they can run their mouth here instead of being in the garage working.... whatever gets them to the front faster.
 
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