Well here it is

You lost me here........

I stated I agree with Don. I sadi IMO I think those who goto this level of cheating should be banned from the sport. I listed my reasons as:
is it dangerous,
it is against the rules
it exposes people without their consent to harmful chemicals.

You call me a hypocrite because:
the people who pit next to you smoke,
you use tire prep "like a madman" next to quater midget kids
there are carcinogens in gasoline and tire prep so what's one more?

Do I have that right?
I'm calling the argument that the danger of the additional chemicals making it a lifetime ban hypocrisy. Highlighting other dangers that we all explain away as the reason for this not being that big of a deal.
 
Once a competitor's fuel is found illegal, then I guess the next logical question then, is....
what specific chemicals do we test for to determine an unreasonable health risk in a competitor's fuel?

Propylene Oxide? NitroBenzene?
How about Benzene, Ethylbenzene, Toluene, and Xylene? Oops, those are already present in the specified pump gas, and are known carcinogens! So, the sanctioning body, track, promoter, and yes - tech guy, are forcing you to comply with using cancer causing fuel to be legal. I would think that puts them in a certain level of liability also. I do miss methanol and mean tweets. :)

That's not even taking into account the affects of using "who knows what" chemicals on our tires.

I think that is the hypocritical stuff that Jay and others are commenting about in this thread.
I'm not sure that, as a hobby/sport/industry, we want to proceed with eliminating all harmful chemicals. There is some level of risk in everything that we do.

I get teching the fuel - and it should be done more often than it is, but you start down a slippery slope when you decide to invoke life-long bans because a competitor has a "carcinogenic additive" in their fuel (legal or not.)
 
We are talking two different concepts here. The use of an additive that is harmful to the public to win a race and the violation of spirit and intent. I have listened to all the conversations and no one has said they know just what the percentages of all the harmful additives are in gasoline. Apparently the government has tested it all to make sure no one gets ill from it and I have never heard of the average joe getting ill from it unless you shut the garage door and sit in the seat of your car with the engine running and windows down. No one has said just how harmful that 20/80 mix is either. I do know this. It was strong enough to burn your eyes while I was Dyno testing it on the 206 and the restricted and unrestricted clone. I was finding it at the track on my 64 showing the upper limits of the 25 allowance when others were only showing under 10. If we opened the door to it would there be a health problem? SO, just where are we on this whole topic? I said I felt we should get rid of a person who INTENTIONALLY violates the rule of SPIRIT AND INTENT should it be proven he used an additive to win a race. I didn’t say it exactly like that but it’s what I meant to say. It is a HARSH penalty. Again just my personal opinion. I am old school. Growing up in a military structured family, high school and college wrestling, and needing to maintain control in a classroom while trying to teach young minds has created a structure to my reasoning for certain beliefs. As I get closer to meeting MY LORD I understand that the world has changed when it comes to ethics and idealism’s. BUT until that time comes I will continue to believe in the Spirit and Intent of this neat little sport. I respect all of your comments. But I do not respect anyone who INTENTIONALLY cheats someone who is playing fair.
GOD BLESS and HAPPY FATHER DAY
 
Everywhere we race NKA, WKA, or local races clearly state 87 octane. If you’re so desperate that you have to cheat your fuel that shows the pure low level IQ. Your money would be better spent with testing, improving your setup, and learning the tire game, because without these things you’re still losing! Damn people. Have more dignity and respect for yourselves. If you don’t like what I said then that’s your problem. It is, what it is. I don’t filter too much and the fact the the moderator even leaves this thread up so some idiot can go home and possibly burn himself or his child up is beyond me.
 
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Everywhere we race NKA, WKA, or local races clearly state 87 octane. If you’re so desperate that you have to cheat your fuel that shows the pure low level IQ. Your money would be better spent with testing, improving your setup, and learning the tire game, because without these things you’re still losing! Damn people. Have more dignity and respect for yourselves. If you don’t like what I said then that’s your problem. It is, what it is. I don’t filter too much and the fact the the moderator even leaves this thread up so some idiot can go home and possibly burn himself or his child up is beyond me.
I thought spec fuel was 93 octane. Is 93 dangerous for an LO206?
 
I thought spec fuel was 93 octane. Is 93 dangerous for an LO206?
93 is not dangerous. We run clones and don’t have much experience with them. You’re wasting money putting 93 in clone. It don’t have enough compression to burn it efficiently.
 
We are talking two different concepts here. The use of an additive that is harmful to the public to win a race and the violation of spirit and intent. I have listened to all the conversations and no one has said they know just what the percentages of all the harmful additives are in gasoline. Apparently the government has tested it all to make sure no one gets ill from it and I have never heard of the average joe getting ill from it unless you shut the garage door and sit in the seat of your car with the engine running and windows down. No one has said just how harmful that 20/80 mix is either. I do know this. It was strong enough to burn your eyes while I was Dyno testing it on the 206 and the restricted and unrestricted clone. I was finding it at the track on my 64 showing the upper limits of the 25 allowance when others were only showing under 10. If we opened the door to it would there be a health problem? SO, just where are we on this whole topic? I said I felt we should get rid of a person who INTENTIONALLY violates the rule of SPIRIT AND INTENT should it be proven he used an additive to win a race. I didn’t say it exactly like that but it’s what I meant to say. It is a HARSH penalty. Again just my personal opinion. I am old school. Growing up in a military structured family, high school and college wrestling, and needing to maintain control in a classroom while trying to teach young minds has created a structure to my reasoning for certain beliefs. As I get closer to meeting MY LORD I understand that the world has changed when it comes to ethics and idealism’s. BUT until that time comes I will continue to believe in the Spirit and Intent of this neat little sport. I respect all of your comments. But I do not respect anyone who INTENTIONALLY cheats someone who is playing fair.
GOD BLESS and HAPPY FATHER DAY
Benzene found in mass produced fuel is a class A carcinogen. Fuel is composed of up to 1.63% of benzene. Propolene oxide is a Class B Carcinogen.


https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/benzene/basics/facts.asp

Propylene Oxide - Shell Global
https://www.shell.com › par › expandablelist › prop...
 
I totally understand your argument, Don. (And I agree with you for the most part.)
The problem lies in using the volatility or health aspect of the fuel additive as a reason for the life-time ban.
What Hopper pointed out is exactly correct. Pump gas is dangerous already. (Again, we're all ignoring the giant white elephant in the room called tire prep.)
Breaking the spirit and intent rule is cause for disqualification. If that rule were currently enforced (as it is already written) maybe we wouldn't have some of these "blatant cheaters" playing with fuel. Just sayin.'
 
Ya'll are still missing the point. We use dangerous chemicals all of the time in karting. What is one more? Why is this one the end all be all suspension? It doesnt make sense from a danger stand point.
 
Ya'll are still missing the point. We use dangerous chemicals all of the time in karting. What is one more? Why is this one the end all be all suspension? It doesnt make sense from a danger stand point.
Are we all missing the point ( maybe ) OR are you missing the point ( maybe ). I get what your saying some, but look at it like robbery OR robbery with a gun, still robbery but with much more severe consequences .
 
Are we all missing the point ( maybe ) OR are you missing the point ( maybe ). I get what your saying some, but look at it like robbery OR robbery with a gun, still robbery but with much more severe consequences .
In both robberies you go to jail. In out sport, no whether you change the fuel or not, you have an increased chance of cancer.
 
93 is not dangerous. We run clones and don’t have much experience with them. You’re wasting money putting 93 in clone. It don’t have enough compression to burn it efficiently.
I was talking about 206, sorry I didn't specify. Are clones faster than LO206?
 
Faster on a 1/5th mile size track Maybe. But on a small track Id bet a LO206 would beat a Clone. Just my experience. But I dont race a AKRA clone just S/A, Flattys, LO 206's and them Predators. But have beat a Clone on a backyard track with 206
Don't bet the farm your family would be upset lol !! On a good set up kart and equal skilled drivers and tires, the AKRA clone will destroy the LO 206, The Clones are running equal or better lap times than the fully blue printed animal.
 
Nobody will be banned from karting as long as there are promotors who, for your parking fee, pit pass fees and entry fees, will look the other way.
 
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