What can be done to a true box stock to improve power

We got a group of guys here in Nebraska that run the adult predator 212 class and they practically lap the field. And for the life of me can’t figure it out. Gotta be some major tuning on the dyno and some small changes internally...
I saw in another thread you race at TPR. My suggestion would be to have one or two of those guys with the "major tuned" engines drive your kart after the race. I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you 3 of people that lap the field haven't had a thing done to the motors, let alone sat on a dyno.

I guarantee people will help if you ask. A forum lacks context and there's a ton a variables.
 
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I wouldn’t know, never made it to tech. They only tech the top 3 guys. And I’m assuming they only tech the minimal stuff.
I'm sure you're familiar with the joke about "assuming". The assumption that the tech committee is not doing their job is a big assumption.
 
That’s what the class was designed for but the word “race” causes the worst in many
In my opinion, if you want to keep a class truly within the rules for the purpose that a box stock class has, there should never be big money on the line. My local track does do a payout. A full class of 12 gets the winner $100, and you can bet your backside that there are a handful of guys that are cheating the rules.

I like the little kick back for finishing in the top half, but I think it gets to a lot of guys' heads. When the classes arent full the racing is always hard and clean. It seems as the classes fill up, so do the caution laps.

Personally, I get top 2 or 3's with an engine that is perfectly legal to our local "stock predator" rules. But like the OP has pointed out, there are a few that sound different than the rest, and tend to always be at the front. I'm not saying theyre cheating, and I have seen those guys get handed an engine from track officials and still win, but their typical power plants seem to thump a little more than most. Fast guys will be fast no matter what you do to them.
 
Stick a scope in them mufflers and have a look around. See the tig weld marks all around the edge and the big or extra holes?
 
Check that the correct screen is in the correct muffler and the correct muffler is on the correct engine
🤔those must not of came on all the predators Don..... seem to be a lot of them missing that part in our neck of the woods. Lol!
 
where the tracks are making the same old stupid mistake that tracks seem to continually make is allowing experienced racers to particiapte int he "beginner" classes, which is what a "boxstock" engine class is, lets face it, karting has a fairly small circle of people involved in it, anyone thats been involved in it for any length of time know who the experienced racers are, if tracks want to avoid the slow yet steady procession of the predator engine to the class that experienced racers dominate week and week out, just like how that same thing happened with the chinese clone engine, tracks need to keep experienced racers out of the class, experinced racers have other choices, flathead, clone, limited modified and open rwyb, brand new racers have one choice, boxstock and when they get their asses handed to them week in and week out in a begineers class by long tenured expereinced racers, well, i think you see where this is going....
The soon to be track champion in our predator class has won it every year theyve had the class. This year he has 8 wins and has only run clone for two races. He has a couple of track championships in clone as well. I enjoy racing him, because he forces me to be better, If he had not been on the track for most of the season, I couldve had at least 4 wins instead of 1. Its my first season.

I think its hard to determine what makes a racer "better than the predator class". The simple truth for my track is that its easy money for the experienced guys, and it pays the same as the clones and S/A. It does get a little bit... boring, to follow the same guy every single week, and watch him gap the field every week. I simply don't know how to be faster than I am now, and I can't imagine what the guys behind me think about it. Its just hard to police, and you run the risk of kart count suffering if you remove the 2 or 3 vets from each predator class.
 
^^^^ditto. I love the predator class it made me a better driver for sure, you got to really be up on the wheel and on your game to hit all your marks to make it work and I needed that. When you get power sometimes you get sloppy cause if your off a touch you just make it up.... the only bad part for me is I cross the scales in the predator and roll out right into a stock appearing flatty so the first time you mat the throttle you tend to forget what you just taught yourself out there. Lol!
 
where the tracks are making the same old stupid mistake that tracks seem to continually make is allowing experienced racers to particiapte int he "beginner" classes, which is what a "boxstock" engine class is, lets face it, karting has a fairly small circle of people involved in it, anyone thats been involved in it for any length of time know who the experienced racers are, if tracks want to avoid the slow yet steady procession of the predator engine to the class that experienced racers dominate week and week out, just like how that same thing happened with the chinese clone engine, tracks need to keep experienced racers out of the class, experinced racers have other choices, flathead, clone, limited modified and open rwyb, brand new racers have one choice, boxstock and when they get their asses handed to them week in and week out in a begineers class by long tenured expereinced racers, well, i think you see where this is going....

Don, the clone class is dying because of open tires and sky rocketing engine prices. I'll add that many people no longer want to make the commitment required to be successful in these classes. It's just not fun for a lot of us.

I'd have to go back and look, but I bet we've had 5-6 different winners this year. You race at our track. We have 3-5 guys that could win any week. We had someone show up that hadn't raced in years and won in a "rental" kart a month ago. We had guys that were getting lapped in heat races at the beginning of the year now running mid pack in features and running strong in heats. We have two gentleman that struggled in the clones that look outstanding in the Hoosier Predator class.

**Edit** The other thing that has been left out is that we have had several very good racers that have flat out struggled multiple times. It's been a challenge for many people.

We don't need a beginner, semi pro, amateur, training wheel...etc class for grown adults. If your kart doesn't turn or you missed the gear, someone is going to beat you not matter what class you're in. We need a class where the cost is reasonable and everyone has a legitimate chance. Our two guys that look great after moving to predators were not bad drivers in clones, they just didn't want to make karting a second full time job.

We need to get some of our new guys up to speed to speed, so we are offering to help them with set up and tips. Many of them have never had their karts on scales. Several don't understand gearing. All of this can be fixed.

A few years ago, I was with the masses that thought Predator was a good way to get people started. I now believe that it can be a destination class if we keep the tire and motor cheats out. Times have changed. Many people don't want to work on tires all week. Even if they have the ability. Some don't want to spend $1250 on a kart motor or $400 on a rebuild. If you know what you're doing (and have a little luck), you can put together a legitimate race ready kart for $1250. Some people just want to race a kart. I am one of those people.

I've told many people to this this summer......once the pick up truck racer starts to come back to the track we will be heading in the right direction. The pick up truck racer brings 3 things: 1. Kart 2. Toolbox 3. Cooler

Nick Dice
Tuxedo Park Raceway
FB: Tuxedo Park Raceway
racetuxedo.com
 
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Don, the clone class is dying because of open tires and sky rocketing engine prices.

I'd have to go back and look, but I bet we've had 5-6 different winners this year. You race at our track. We have 3-5 guys that could win any week. We had someone show up that hadn't raced in years and won in a "rental" kart a month ago. We had guys that were getting lapped in heat races at the beginning of the year now running mid pack in features and running strong in heats. We have two gentleman that struggled in the clones that look outstanding in the Hoosier Predator class.

We don't need a beginner, semi pro, amateur, training wheel...etc class for grown adults. If your kart doesn't turn or you missed the gear, someone is going to beat you. We need a class where the cost is reasonable and everyone has a legitimate chance. Our two guys that look great after moving to predators were not bad drivers in clones, they just didn't want to make karting a second full time job.

We need to get some of our new guys up to speed to speed, so we are offering to help them with set up and tips. Many of them have never had their karts on scales. Several don't understand gearing. All of this can be fixed.

A few years ago, I was with the masses that thought Predator was a good way to get people started. I now believe that it can be a destination class if we keep the tire and motor cheats out. Times have changed. Many people don't want to work on tires all week. Even if they have the ability. Some don't want to spend $1250 on a kart motor or $400 on a rebuild. If you know what you're doing (and have a little luck), you can put together a legitimate race ready kart for $1250. Some people just want to race a kart. I am one of those people.

I've told many people to this this summer......once the pick up truck racer starts to come back to the track we will be heading in the right direction. The pick up truck racer brings 3 things: 1. Kart 2. Toolbox 3. Cooler

Nick Dice
Tuxedo Park Raceway
FB: Tuxedo Park Raceway
racetuxedo.com
I almost wonder if you could have a "sportsman" predator class like that, no prep, no mods etc, AND a predator class with minor mods like air box, pipe, springs, jets and prep. IF guys wouldnt push the rule makers to change them, I think it could stay an affordable class. I agree that the true weekend warrior kart racer probably wants nothing to do with prep. And I honestly plan to try some cobras next year unprepped to see how they do vs what I am on. Prepping sucks and I truly believe it is hurting the sport. It makes it that much harder for the new guy to have encouraging nights.

I like the sportsman idea. Maybe a track could have a 360lb honestly box stock predator and no prep and just have some fun.
 
I almost wonder if you could have a "sportsman" predator class like that, no prep, no mods etc, AND a predator class with minor mods like air box, pipe, springs, jets and prep. IF guys wouldnt push the rule makers to change them, I think it could stay an affordable class. I agree that the true weekend warrior kart racer probably wants nothing to do with prep. And I honestly plan to try some cobras next year unprepped to see how they do vs what I am on. Prepping sucks and I truly believe it is hurting the sport. It makes it that much harder for the new guy to have encouraging nights.

I like the sportsman idea. Maybe a track could have a 360lb honestly box stock predator and no prep and just have some fun.
Thank you! I am a new racer and I am overwelliming my self with what I need to do when preping, I am starting next year and I am so afraid I am gonna mess up!
 
I almost wonder if you could have a "sportsman" predator class like that, no prep, no mods etc, AND a predator class with minor mods like air box, pipe, springs, jets and prep. IF guys wouldnt push the rule makers to change them, I think it could stay an affordable class. I agree that the true weekend warrior kart racer probably wants nothing to do with prep. And I honestly plan to try some cobras next year unprepped to see how they do vs what I am on. Prepping sucks and I truly believe it is hurting the sport. It makes it that much harder for the new guy to have encouraging nights.

I like the sportsman idea. Maybe a track could have a 360lb honestly box stock predator and no prep and just have some fun.

I suppose.

We've gone for 6 adult clones to 15 predators in one year.

We went from have 1-2 karts that can win to 3-5.

The challenges that I've seen in year one is staying ahead of the people looking for holes in the rules and getting newer racers up to speed faster. People don't want to race against 6 karts (in general). We've had 3 features over 20 this year which is not typical for an Adult Flat kart class in our area.
 
Thank you! I am a new racer and I am overwelliming my self with what I need to do when preping, I am starting next year and I am so afraid I am gonna mess up!
Get cobras and get with me when the season comes back around. I'll get you close, the rest you'll just have to figure out. I'm still chasing that last little bit of what I need lol

I suppose.

We've gone for 6 adult clones to 15 predators in one year.

We went from have 1-2 karts that can win to 3-5.

The challenges that I've seen in year one is staying ahead of the people looking for holes in the rules and getting newer racers up to speed faster. People don't want to race against 6 karts (in general). We've had 3 features over 20 this year which is not typical for an Adult Flat kart class in our area.
Our clone classes only have a few maybe 3 guys in each that have a shot, everybody else is just racing for 4th. Our predator classes are similar, but every now and again a surprise or two will happen and somebody will grab a top 3 that normally doesnt.

For my class (400) we started with lower numbers (5-8) but the last 5 races have had 11-12. 12 is a full field for us so it has been fun on the nights when I pull my classic 150+ pill.
 
Our clone classes only have a few maybe 3 guys in each that have a shot, everybody else is just racing for 4th. Our predator classes are similar, but every now and again a surprise or two will happen and somebody will grab a top 3 that normally doesnt.
You run open tire and prep in both classes?
 
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