What can be done to a true box stock to improve power

Curious why so many people are against claimer rules? If you lose you have the chance to get a great piece and if you win you know you skirted a line and to dial it back next time.
 
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We got a group of guys here in Nebraska that run the adult predator 212 class and they practically lap the field. And for the life of me can’t figure it out. Gotta be some major tuning on the dyno and some small changes internally...
Jets are checked go or no go.. they make micro drill bits. Turn the cam gear on the crank. Stock crank stock cam stock flywheel but we moved timing... hmmm.. 10.8 green stripes and some brake clean = no more stripe 0 lash hot. 3910 spark plug. Surges 5500 on stand will pass all tech but a degree wheel. There I gave u enough to be dangerous lol
 
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Why do so many people want to point at the motors being the problem? Id spend a little more time watching these karts go through the corner. We scaled two racers before our event Saturday and they appeared to perform better. We had another racer that was struggling identify that he has had a brake dragging the last few weeks. None of these will be identified in the tech barn.

Also, what evidence do you have the leads you to believe that any of the predator motors in the area you race in would not pass tech (illegal)? Why leads you to believe that anyone's engine is better than anyone elses? What is the problem that we currently have in our area that needs to be addressed with the Predator motor(what needs to be fixed)?

A 10th place kart swapping a motor with the $400 predator guy is still going to be a 10th place kart. In fairness though, $400 isn't really out there. The parts that are bolted on to the engine cost money. Even $500 isn't in left field, but it certainly is not the intent of the class.

You run the open/mod classes. How many times in the class that you run the motor with the biggest HP win? It has always seemed to me that the kart that wins the corners wins the race.

Everyone has a lot of fixes/solutions, but I'd need to understand what the problem is. We can throw all kinds of solutions out there, but if they don't address anything its a waste of time and resources. Tech, evolving rules and claim is what will keep this reasonable.

We allow 3 mods(basically):
Weenie Pipe - Safety
Fuel Tank - We just didn't like how stock tank performed
Governor Removal

@Hrtmn450 pretty much nailed most of things we are aware of it. Id encourage people to go overspend on a motor. They will find out one way or another that we will keep the cost down. I've decided to not do a claim this year because engine availability is poor. It is not fair to the racer getting claimed to have to sweat bullets finding an engine. Once that availability issue is resolved, expect track claims, racer claims and track confiscations for testing/evaluation during the week.
 
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I can't get past your first two sentences.....

First....You call it a beginners class. You're going to have to get over this because I don't consider it a beginners class. I've never sold or promoted as a beginners class and I have no intentions to do so. Not sure how depending on what motor sits on an aluminum plate held down by 4 5/16" nuts makes you a beginner or not.

This class was put together to address horrid kart counts. We have some great racers in our area, but the simple fact is we couldn't build a weekly class around them. They don't show consistently. This class is to meet the concerns of people that told me they wanted to race but had no interest in tire prep or high engine prices. The class was put together for racers that want to set up a kart and adjust gearing and air pressure. This class was set up for people that want to be weekend warriors and not have to worry about working on their stuff all week in order to be competitive. The class was set up to grab racers that had walked away because they lost the love for karting because it was too much work. This class was set up so that the learning curve and financial burden for a new racer wasn't so high that they would be discouraged immediately. Not everyone wants to win the Maxx Daddy. Some of us want to run 50 laps, throw it in the truck and see it again next week.

I can't speak for anyone's reputations. I know one racer came and helped me set up karts before the event on Saturday. I know another racer that ran a close third took out a struggling racers kart after the event and found a problem with the kart. I know another racer that just started realized quickly that he was not prepared (extremely old kart) and has already put them up for sale so he can get back in the mix.

We had a sprint car driver and his daughter (she has plenty of kart experience) hop in karts they had never seen before and run very well Saturday. No tach, no scales. She had wood blocks on the pedals to reach. A month ago we had a guy pull a kart that hadn't run in a year out of a storage trailer and beat all the regulars. He hadn't driven a kart it 5 years I was told. We also have several very good racers that have struggled with this configuration.

Second.....A $99 ($112 w/tax) motor won the JR1 Predator and the Adult Predator on Saturday. That is a fact. I can't confirm this, but I believe the JR2 motor is a $99 ($112 w/tax) motor that has $40 in dyno time. They were all put together by the same person that followed the same video:

You're presenting your opinion as fact. Furthermore, you don't answer any of the questions that have been posed to you. We will lose people. Every class does. At this point, it is going to be no where near the amount we are gaining. I expect that we will add another 15-20 adults over the winter. I know of two kids running champ karts that will be moving over to flat karts next year. We have parents in the area, for the first time that I can recall, actually considering starting their kids in flat karts instead of champ karts.





This dialogue is disappointing. All this does is fuel rumors. It's unnecessary drama around something that is clearly bringing more racers to your local kart track. I've been very up front with our racers about where we are, the potential issues and where I want to go. You don't even run the class but you are presenting all these problems that you really can't seem to provide any evidence of. You will be invited to bring up your concerns in front of the predator racers at our next pit meeting.

Maybe be like Dan Cotton and go help someone that is struggling rather than tell people they have no chance. Maybe be like Eric Scarborough and come a few hours early and help scale karts for new guys. I bet you might find it more rewarding.
 
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i do not race this class, therefore i have removed all my posts in this thread, i will mind my own business from here on out.
 
Why do so many people want to point at the motors being the problem? Id spend a little more time watching these karts go through the corner. We scaled two racers before our event Saturday and they appeared to perform better. We had another racer that was struggling identify that he has had a brake dragging the last few weeks. None of these will be identified in the tech barn.

Also, what evidence do you have the leads you to believe that any of the predator motors in the area you race in would not pass tech (illegal)? Why leads you to believe that anyone's engine is better than anyone elses? What is the problem that we currently have in our area that needs to be addressed with the Predator motor(what needs to be fixed)?

A 10th place kart swapping a motor with the $400 predator guy is still going to be a 10th place kart. In fairness though, $400 isn't really out there. The parts that are bolted on to the engine cost money. Even $500 isn't in left field, but it certainly is not the intent of the class.

You run the open/mod classes. How many times in the class that you run the motor with the biggest HP win? It has always seemed to me that the kart that wins the corners wins the race.

Everyone has a lot of fixes/solutions, but I'd need to understand what the problem is. We can throw all kinds of solutions out there, but if they don't address anything its a waste of time and resources. Tech, evolving rules and claim is what will keep this reasonable.

We allow 3 mods(basically):
Weenie Pipe - Safety
Fuel Tank - We just didn't like how stock tank performed
Governor Removal

@Hrtmn450 pretty much nailed most of things we are aware of it. Id encourage people to go overspend on a motor. They will find out one way or another that we will keep the cost down. I've decided to not do a claim this year because engine availability is poor. It is not fair to the racer getting claimed to have to sweat bullets finding an engine. Once that availability issue is resolved, expect track claims, racer claims and track confiscations for testing/evaluation during the week.
Exactly. One track I run weekly requires you use there sealed engine and it stays at the track we get random engines for the night. It comes down to who's got the best tire program and gets threw the coners the best. I have taken one of those engines ( end of year u take one home) to another track and 1/2 tracked people I know are spending money on engines. The point of the story's are even if you have a more powerful engine that dosent mean you will be faster, you will probably be slower actually espically if you cant get though the coners. Ide be more focused on gearing and tires and get the chassis working and keeping momentum up then more power. Let them spend money and whoop up on them with a truly box stock. I laugh when people claim my engine because i never even change the oil in them lol focus more on roll speed and rpm drop then if people are tweaking engines.
 
Exactly. One track I run weekly requires you use there sealed engine and it stays at the track we get random engines for the night. It comes down to who's got the best tire program and gets threw the coners the best. I have taken one of those engines ( end of year u take one home) to another track and 1/2 tracked people I know are spending money on engines. The point of the story's are even if you have a more powerful engine that dosent mean you will be faster, you will probably be slower actually espically if you cant get though the coners. Ide be more focused on gearing and tires and get the chassis working and keeping momentum up then more power. Let them spend money and whoop up on them with a truly box stock. I laugh when people claim my engine because i never even change the oil in them lol focus more on roll speed and rpm drop then if people are tweaking engines.
I totally agree with you on tire program chassis setup and driving skill being the number one thing to concentrate on for any Karter...I started this thread and I want you to understand alot of the races around here are predator money races and can have from 7-15 national caliber drivers in them....I'm talking about guys that have won some of the biggest money races etc in this country not only predator races but clones,limiteds,opens etc etc....I assure you if you showed up with a box stock predator you would be in the rear....don't get me wrong I totally agree in most parts of the country you could take a true box stock and outrun even some illegal ones with right tires/setup etc ....I personally would like to see a clutch tooth rule and within 3 teeth gear rule for predators at every track
 
I totally agree with you on tire program chassis setup and driving skill being the number one thing to concentrate on for any Karter...I started this thread and I want you to understand alot of the races around here are predator money races and can have from 7-15 national caliber drivers in them....I'm talking about guys that have won some of the biggest money races etc in this country not only predator races but clones,limiteds,opens etc etc....I assure you if you showed up with a box stock predator you would be in the rear....don't get me wrong I totally agree in most parts of the country you could take a true box stock and outrun even some illegal ones with right tires/setup etc ....I personally would like to see a clutch tooth rule and within 3 teeth gear rule for predators at every track
You would then need to have a tire diameter rule, think about it if you try to gear bind just up the tire diameter and you just changed your gear ratio. If I was running a big money race I would pass "box stock" tech ;) I just simply answered a question of what people are doing. Buy 5 motors to make one that tolerances are good, do what I stated before and there you go, pass tech and have the edge.
 
You would then need to have a tire diameter rule, think about it if you try to gear bind just up the tire diameter and you just changed your gear ratio. If I was running a big money race I would pass "box stock" tech ;) I just simply answered a question of what people are doing. Buy 5 motors to make one that tolerances are good, do what I stated before and there you go, pass tech and have the edge.
True....RR diameter check would be good also and only takes about 2 seconds to check
 
I joined this forum and actually threw out an idea as my first post and then my second post was an introduction... I don't think it was this thread but again it was the same discussion.
My idea was to have the track go to Harbor Freight and purchase for the sake of argument 20 identical non hemi predators with the same serial number. Have each competitor buy one of the motors and be charged a $20 maintenance and storage fee for its oil change and storage each race. Also a set agreed-upon cheap clutch with the same drive gear... Have everyone line up with their carts on their stand and be handed their motor so everyone can see everyone Mount their engine. Race the race and give the engine back and put it back into the box. Then write the position that the person finished on the box and invert the boxes for the next event....
At the last race of the year you get to keep the engine that you have and it's box as a practice engine for The following season...
The track should be able to get a discount on the 20 engines and be able to charge maybe an extra 20 per engine
Plus maybe an upcharge for a clutch...
And again a little each race for an oil change and storage...
????..
I'd love to get some feedback on this idea and how insane it is...
 
Kinda like on time shipping .
Not everyone shows up too the grid or the track on time .
:giggle: your too late the last flight just left !
We switch engines at the track , so it's a simple enough task too mount one up .
Throttle is the variable .
 
Kinda like on time shipping .
Not everyone shows up too the grid or the track on time .
:giggle: your too late the last flight just left !
We switch engines at the track , so it's a simple enough task too mount one up .
Throttle is the variable .
well it would seem like after they paid their money for their engine if they didn't show up to the track or not on time LOL I guess that would be SOL...
 
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