What happened to recreational karting?

Would you race karts for points / trophies without a payout?

  • Yes, money payouts have ruined karting.

    Votes: 17 50.0%
  • Yes, but I'd still race big shows for money.

    Votes: 11 32.4%
  • No, the money is the primary thrill.

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • No, I'm a pro.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Unsure, never seen a race without a payout.

    Votes: 3 8.8%

  • Total voters
    34

Ted Hamilton

Helmet Painter / Racer
I started racing at a club track in 1988. They ran a driver's school, where we were taught the usual racing lines, flags, etc., but we were also taught "no-contact" as a sportsmanship issue, and there was no payout of any sort. We paid $15 entry fees, and raced for points. There was a year-end banquet for trophies and some minor prizes, mostly donated by local companies where the dads worked.

Of the 7.5 years I raced that type of kart, I won the points championship 4x, had an undefeated year (including heats), and built a car with my dad as well as building my competitor a car (who had the nerve to beat me with it once. ) It was a time of great family memories, learning technical skills, enjoying the art of driving, and camaraderie of fellow racers. I participated in the State tour series, winning there as well. Cash was a non-issue. Everyone knew you always spent more than you could ever make back, and we preferred low costs with no payout.

Has money killed recreational karting? I think so. The greed for payout has reinforced poor sportsmanship, poor driving, needless spending, a lack of friendly atmosphere between older competitors, and more. (Notice, the younger ones don't seem to care about the money, and simply run around with their friends....it's the dads that trade barbs and fists for them...) It seem like everyone is under the delusion that karting is a huge step on the ladder to professional motorsports... For some it's a good start, but they leave, so why should we cater to them? Especially when the habits they pick up don't suit them well in a professional team?

Now, don't get too ruffled. -- I think there's a place for PRO karting (and its' associated pro-level spending.) But I think most tracks would be more profitable and the whole sport better off, if tracks were run like clubs, and points and fun were returned to the mix. Combine that with class consolidation, and commonality of rules between tracks.... I think field sizes would grow and increase the fun even more...

Sure, everyone enjoys winning, but let's face it -- there's 1 winner, and anywhere from 3 to 12 losers per class. Only big shows get big numbers.... Why? I'd rather be in a single Clone class with 28 people and a consi than racing 4 people trying to wreck me for my Clone Halfway Medium Light Washed Up Also-Ran Green Bodywork class. Since winning every week is next to impossible, I'd rather enjoy the thrill of competition with good friends and large fields... Am I alone in that? I'll be curious to see the poll results from those brave enough to answer honestly. I enjoy winning. But there's more to karting than winning....it's a good place to learn the ART of driving, and driving well. It's a good place to learn physics, mechanics, engineering, friendship, social skills, and gastronomy. Anyone who's never eaten a track burger with greasy hands, joking with friendly rivals after 10 people came together to fix someones wrecked kart before the feature has missed out on something good....

I'd wager that the boom in backyard tracks indicates I'm not the only one thinking this way... Let the polls show..
 
I half way agree with you. When the "big money" shows happen, it seems everybody drives like baboons. I also know that I pay more entry fees at the local track that does trophies than I do at the payout track. It also is nice that if you run well, you make a bit back to show for it. This last Saturday I finished 3rd of 8. I got $20. Covered all but $7 of my entry fees. I'm not banking on it, but it is kinda nice.
 
I owned my own asphalt track and promoted a dirt track. Flathead and 100 cc Yamaha days. Three adult classes and three junior classes for flathead and lite/heavy for 2 cycle. It took me a while to get the program up and running to MY way of racing. Clean driving, clean engines, and clean conduct/behavior from everyone on the teams. I sent several packing in my first few years because of the above. I believed for every bad persons I rid the track of I would get a good person back. When I gave up the track we were out of parking. Towards the end I experienced more rough driving behaviors when the bodies became popular. Then I had requests for money payouts. I didn’t give in to it. I was the flagman. I had a drivers meeting every week. In that meeting I addressed the previous weeks negative situations both on and off track. I also complimented the class that did the best. At intermission I would go throughout the pits and talk to people about whatever I needed to even if it was something I didn’t like that I saw while flagging. Most of the time people were cooperative but now and then I would have a dispute. Also most of the time I wouldn’t see on track what I had to discuss in the pits from a certain individual. If I did the flag got used.
You don’t see that kind of communication any more. It’s all about that almighty dollar. Don’t make anyone mad because they may not come back seems to be the theory nowadays. You don’t see good flagging anymore. You don’t see good driving anymore. You don’t see good conduct anymore. You don’t see good communication any more.
 
We have ran pretty much the full gambit . From the local backyard to the series money races . The local backyard was the most fun and freindly . With 50 cent hot dogs .
The club track was nice you could race without joining but , paid higher feee and not part of the banquet , we joined even though we didnt make all the shows.
Traveled with a pretty big group so the comradere was still there even though series racing .
Shoot : Roger Andrews loaned me an engine just so i could borrow the coil .
Thats fellowship . After only meeting him a few times at the track .
 
No matter if you can or can't there's only one reason to race.
You race to beat others and win.

anything else go ride a concession
 
The local, weekend racing is the most enjoyable. Laidback atmosphere, people talk to each other, help each other. We might race for a small trophy, or a plaque. Just good fun.
However, if you only have five karts in a class and only a couple competitive, it gets boring. I like racing different tracks and different people.
 
I honestly don’t care if I win money ... I like the end of the year trophy and the notoriety of being a bad man in a kart. Sunday W’s are my payday. Keep the cash and put it back into the track
Yea when we would show up late you could read there lips .
Darn they made it :giggle: that was sweet .
 
No matter if you can or can't there's only one reason to race.
You race to beat others and win.

anything else go ride a concession

Yes, one races to win.
But that's not the only satisfaction in racing. And if it is, be prepared to be an unhappy racer most of the time.

There are those who are determined to be a miserable SOB unless they're finishing first. Those type of people are driven to win at any cost. And in a certain sense, that dedication is seemingly noble. But the majority of people in that position end up bankrupting their families, living in squalor, and making those closest to them miserable because they're mean and bitter....because they're not winning. And often, despite their dedication, they don't pursue the knowledge or build the relationships to find true success. For all their efforts, they're midpackers. They claim their opponents are cheating (who aren't.) They claim they don't cheat (they are.) They delay paying on parts as long as possible (or even at all!) while demanding suppliers overnight parts... They are driven, but even when they win, they aren't satisfied.

Yes, I race to win. But that's not all I race for. And if I finish a better human, but have a few less trophies, I can live with that. Because I can live with myself, and everyone else can live with me too.

I know what it takes to win. A ruthless dedication, nearing perfection. All the money you have, and more. All the time you have, and more. And I've made a choice that some costs are too high for me to pay. I have a wonderful family to show for it. So, you may finish ahead of me at the track some, or even most, of the time. But you haven't beaten me.
 
Your reply made me think of something else as far as getting satisfaction out of racing.

Your good if when you show up the fast guys ain't sure their going to win.

Then there's this one I heard many years ago on here. "i'm the fastest of the slow guys".
 
I have raced for years... Now i am and will never be up to par with these big money guys... I have since put my racing on hold to teach my 11 year old son to race... For the first year he raced i had him underpowered and poorly set up... The second year i slowly made adjustments to his kart to make him handle better and faster... I feel by doing so i can receive feedback from him as to what the kart is doing and what we need to change... This past season he came 4th in points at our now closed local track with only running a little over half the season... I tell him everytime he goes out to drive his line and most importantly have fun... I could care less about a purse but it is nice to win a little every now and then...
 
Last fall we went to one of the money races for the first time. We went with the same karts, same beat up kart bodies, and same worn out engines and tires that we finished the regular season with. We went for the experience and to have some fun, no hope of winning.
I was both amused and disgusted at the display of sportsmanship, idiots stopping in the middle of the race to throw punches, fathers and sons fighting with other drivers, fathers (grown men) yelling at other kids. I have always told my kids that no matter what happens on the track to let it go, if they drive dirty or get into fights the karts are sold and weare done. I think the big money shows bring that out in people, but I don’t blame the payout. I blame those running the show. I blame the parents that let their kids act that way. I blame the parents that teach their kids to act that way by the example they set. But I have seen the same actions at smaller low payout races. I like to see a payout but it isn’t that important. All that my kids made in payout goes directly to them. To me it is the time we spend in the shop during the week together. It is the time the whole family spends at the tracktogether and it is the great friends we have made at the track. Last fall at the money race we went to a guy that was pitted next to us asked me how I get my kids to help at the races. My two were making their own adjustments and repairs to their own cars, I was just giving them advice. His son was sitting on the ground texting his friends. But that parent was also yelling at his kid because he didn’t think he tried hard enough. We are only on it for the fun, payout is nice but not necessary.
 
I do the big races, and i go to a lot of local races. As i feel blessed to be in the Carolinas, i hit probably 7-8 different local tracks, and lots of the big shows. I see more fighting and arguing at local shows than ever at the big races. I also see lots of karters who do local racing only while i know some who wont go to a race if it pays less than a grand. Theres a place for everyone as long as you have the means to do so.
As ive always said to folks, having fun is the most important thing, whether that means you race local or big.
Karting isnt cheap anymore, you can race on the less expensive side, or the higher side, but some type of payout needs to co exist with the track and racer to help alleviate some racing bills. We are way past the days of trophy racing only. Hard to take a step backward after getting a taste of the present.
 
We are way past the days of trophy racing only. Hard to take a step backward after getting a taste of the present.

Stopping payouts and lowering entry fees only takes a track having the vision and commitment to do so. And it's not a step backwards. It's a step forwards for the good of the sport. Notice that this thread is about RECREATIONAL karting, not professional karting.
 
Ted and others, I would be curious if what your describing is unique to oval or is this happening in sprint also? I have never raced oval but from what I have seen karts are very similar in speed and passing is tough. With more corners sprint racing given more opportunities for passing but is also a challenge, it might take several laps to execute 1 pass. No liken any form of racing you can chrome horn someone out of the way and I believe some of this is acceptable but not to the point karts are crashing. The push back bumpers are a step in the right direction on sprint, not sure if there is something similar for oval. With that said, no level of racing (recreational or pro) should tolerate ANY unsportsmanlike behavior or voilence from the competitors or support crew (parents). First offense -warrning, second offense forfeit any points or money and asked to leave immediately, third offense your banned for a month and if it continues after that. permanent ban.
 
Stopping payouts and lowering entry fees only takes a track having the vision and commitment to do so. And it's not a step backwards. It's a step forwards for the good of the sport. Notice that this thread is about RECREATIONAL karting, not professional karting.
This is about recreational karting, and we are past the days of trophy racing, in the south and more.
Having a "vision" doesnt mean doing things for free, whether or not anyone believes it, this is a business for a promoter. Unless the promoter makes money, he or she (or whomever) wont be able to stay open long.
And i do believe that would be a step backwards. Its nice for a karter to bring home a little money after spending a good part of the day, or evening, at the track and putting in the work. Of course this is my ideas, yours differ, i understand.
 
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