What is Gear Bound??

racing promotor

Moderator
Thanks you Dover... Racing Promoter.. The track is Patriot Speedway.. Not sure the exact size.. I was running 18-60. Thank y'all for the help its been aggravating just try to get the RPMs up.. I went to hard tires just to show myself it's not tires.

Looked at web-site they do not list size that I saw, but based on pictures it's a fifth or bigger, I'd be very surprised if you find your gear bound, I would try an 18 - 62 and see what the results are and go from there.

Good Luck !!
 

paulkish

old fart
Sure hope what follows is ok, I've never brought what follows all together on paper before. I would appreciate it if errors found in what I wrote are pointed out. Otherwise, myself and others might continue on from here, with incorrect concepts about gearing.

Writing stuff down helps me clear it in my mind, I hope reading it helps others, but I sure don't want to put incorrect ideas in others minds. That why I try to always ask that what I write be taken with a grain of salt, thought about and thrown out if it doesn't fit your own reasoning or experience. This site is for all of us, to share thoughts, problems, ideas and experiences good or bad, we at least I need all the input from others as I can feed on.

__________________

Is the following correct for using gears, from what was given on here?

There are three possibilities using gears:

The first is having the correct gearing which allows you to efficiently use up your engine, from the start of acceleration to the end of the straight.

The second is you have too much gearing and your engine is used up or spun up to where you want it or beyond, before the end of the straight. (to much gear)

The third is you do not have enough gearing, your engine is over worked or over loaded and it can't get up to the rpm you need. (gear bound)

I'll add for each of the above, the speed or rpm at which you start your acceleration somewhere mid corner out, is also a factor determining which of the three conditions you will experience during the straight. Your rpm at the start of acceleration, can shift your performance on the straight, between each of the three. Example: If your slightly 'gear bound' and you correct your driving to exit a corner at a higher rpm or speed, you may also correct your gear bound problem.

If what I wrote is correct, it means your exit speed is totally dependent or how much momentum you carry through entry, and the physical line on the straight is totally dependent on where your entry to the start of acceleration, places you on the track including how much turning still needs done. The whole of it is your gearing cannot be right, unless turn in to the start of acceleration is correct.

I want to add something else. Your acceleration may not have started, though forces you may feel with the seat of your pants, tells you it has. The tires engaged with the track in the turn, can slow you down weather or not your foot is to the floor, weather or not you braked, or weather or not you burped it.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Patriot is 1060 feet in the groove, if I remember right. We measured it a couple months ago.

A Fifth would be 1056 lf so real close, So I see NO way you were Gear bound the way I view it, I would say you need higher number rear gear with that 18 driver, or leave the 60 and drop front driver to a 17 and see what it does.

Good Luck !!
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Sure hope what follows is ok, I've never brought what follows all together on paper before. I would appreciate it if errors found in what I wrote are pointed out. Otherwise, myself and others might continue on from here, with incorrect concepts about gearing.

Writing stuff down helps me clear it in my mind, I hope reading it helps others, but I sure don't want to put incorrect ideas in others minds. That why I try to always ask that what I write be taken with a grain of salt, thought about and thrown out if it doesn't fit your own reasoning or experience. This site is for all of us, to share thoughts, problems, ideas and experiences good or bad, we at least I need all the input from others as I can feed on.

__________________

Is the following correct for using gears, from what was given on here?

There are three possibilities using gears:

The first is having the correct gearing which allows you to efficiently use up your engine, from the start of acceleration to the end of the straight.

The second is you have too much gearing and your engine is used up or spun up to where you want it or beyond, before the end of the straight. (to much gear)

The third is you do not have enough gearing, your engine is over worked or over loaded and it can't get up to the rpm you need. (gear bound)

I'll add for each of the above, the speed or rpm at which you start your acceleration somewhere mid corner out, is also a factor determining which of the three conditions you will experience during the straight. Your rpm at the start of acceleration, can shift your performance on the straight, between each of the three. Example: If your slightly 'gear bound' and you correct your driving to exit a corner at a higher rpm or speed, you may also correct your gear bound problem.

If what I wrote is correct, it means your exit speed is totally dependent or how much momentum you carry through entry, and the physical line on the straight is totally dependent on where your entry to the start of acceleration, places you on the track including how much turning still needs done. The whole of it is your gearing cannot be right, unless turn in to the start of acceleration is correct.

I want to add something else. Your acceleration may not have started, though forces you may feel with the seat of your pants, tells you it has. The tires engaged with the track in the turn, can slow you down weather or not your foot is to the floor, weather or not you braked, or weather or not you burped it.

Great post, as I read it ya pretty much sum it up !
 

alvin l nunley

Site Supporter
I have an idea spinning around in my head that may explain it, but I'm not sure, just an idea.

When you asked the local hot shoe a question on gearing, and he has no idea of a solution, he'll suggest, "gear bound". Not that he knows what that means, but he's pretty sure that you don't know what it means either. This allows his reputation as the, "local hot shoe" to remain in place. You have it spinning around in your head, "what does that mean" but you don't want to ask that question in fear of being thought of as a knob.
 

Dover Power

Member
I missed the track it was..
Patriot is a super fast 1/5 mile.. 18-19 tooth clutch.. Very easy to get gear bound there..
Most tracks in the southeast are momentium tracks by design
 

racing promotor

Moderator
I have an idea spinning around in my head that may explain it, but I'm not sure, just an idea.

When you asked the local hot shoe a question on gearing, and he has no idea of a solution, he'll suggest, "gear bound". Not that he knows what that means, but he's pretty sure that you don't know what it means either. This allows his reputation as the, "local hot shoe" to remain in place. You have it spinning around in your head, "what does that mean" but you don't want to ask that question in fear of being thought of as a knob.

When it stops spinning, Hopefully you will Re-Think your Idea, I assure you that's not how it works.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
if you can assure us that's not how it works, perhaps you can explain to us how it does work.

Paul already hit on it, The hot Shoes are not always just the drivers, The better driver USUALLY have a Hot Shoe crew chief or Tire guy or both, and If another driver needs advise, the hot shoes are always willing to help and don't make excuses, and they know what gear bound is.
 

jacobsdad

Member
This is a little off of the subject, but I do have a gearing question.
When building motorcycles it has always been advised to never use a gear ratio where the driven gear is divisible by the front gear. Example, a 10 front and 60 rear. You would want a 59 or a 61 but not a 60.
Is this the same with karts?
I don't know if it really made a difference. Talk to motorcycle guys and you will get a few answers as to the why not. The popular idea is that it puts the chain and sprocket in a bind and will wear the chain and sprocket.
Is this the same with karts?
 

paulkish

old fart
Very interesting.

Checking a gear chart, it looks to me the 'only' time it might happen with a kart is 65/13, giving you a 5.0. and ??????????

edit: or a 66/11 giving you a 6.0

... or am I reading what you offered wrong? Seems like I might be not understanding your post and the math. ... :(

edit again: I think I'm totally lost on your post. but I'll leave my wanderings up here for all to see my stupidity on it. ... :)
 

jacobsdad

Member
Very interesting.

Checking a gear chart, it looks to me the 'only' time it might happen with a kart is 65/13, giving you a 5.0. and ??????????

edit: or a 66/11 giving you a 6.0

... or am I reading what you offered wrong? Seems like I might be not understanding your post and the math. ... :(

edit again: I think I'm totally lost on your post. but I'll leave my wanderings up here for all to see my stupidity on it. ... :)

Yes, exactly. An 11 drive gear and a 66 driven gear, or a 11 and 55 or 11 and 44. Or for that matter, a 15 and 30, or a 15 and 45. If the rear gear is divisable by the front gear. Other examples would be 17 drive gear and 51 driven gear would give a 3.0 ratio because 51 divided by 17 equals 3. Now a 52 divided by 17 equals 3.05882. I know a 15 and 30 are not realistic gears to use for karting, but a 15 and 60 could be.
I don't know if this is a real issue, or just old biker superstition but on motorcycles we never use a ratio where the rear is divisible by the front gear.
 

Bob Evans

Administrator
Sounds like a good thing that I don't use the term. :)

Seriously, it seems like the driver should be able to tell if the motor's lugging or overwinding
 
Thanks you Dover... Racing Promoter.. The track is Patriot Speedway.. Not sure the exact size.. I was running 18-60. Thank y'all for the help its been aggravating just try to get the RPMs up.. I went to hard tires just to show myself it's not tires.

That gear on, its not gearbound, its the tires.
 
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