What's happened to racing....

harrym

Member
As I read through the post here on Bob's, and other sites, I see many many post of people wanting to how "how to build this, or how to build that....does anybody have any plans to build this..."

What's happened? When I was a coming up racer, I figured things out on my own. If I needed something, and it had to be built, I figured it out myself and built it. I could step back and say, "Yep! I built that!" and it had much more meaning to me. People today seem like they don't want to bother with anything, that it's just easier to get someone else to do it, or use other peoples ideas and knowledge and not go through the bother of trying to figure things out. To me, when you do this, you'll never learn anything. Use your imagination! step back and say to yourself..."How can I make this, or make it better?"

I think innovation is gone today in racing. It's a lot easier to copy someones design or plans that THEY have worked hard to make. I hear so many people say, "we need to level the playing field," or you need to race by the book." I read somewhere that someone said, "if you go by the book, then you will never be any better than the person who wrote the book." I like that statement.

In just about every kids sport today...there are no losers, they are all winners. How is the kids suppose to learn everything when he runs dead last and still gets a first place trophy? Sure, it makes the kid feel good, but I think that is setting them up for a lot of disappointments later on in life when they find out that they can not always be first, or win.

In my 40+ years of racing and being in the racing business, I have seen many changes....some good, and some not so good. Come on guys!....open up your brains and tool boxes and get creative. Don't just copy someones hard work, jump in and do it yourselves....figure it out, and you can step back and say...."Yep, I built that!" You'll be surprised at what you can do and all the fun you will have doing it. This country today manufactures just about nothing. Not long ago, we used to out manufacture the world...and did it with people who could barely read or write. Now we manufacture nothing, and our economy shows it. Now, everything is , quick, easy and cheap, and we live in a throw away society. I have been a fabricator for many years and that is something I love to do. I have built mini bikes out of old bicycle frames and lawnmower engines when I was a kid, to Sprint car chassis and it was fun and educational. Let's get our creative thoughts flowing and build something on our own.

OK....I'm done ranting. Back to the coffee pot.
 
the question that they all ask today is "why should i do the work? you can do it for me".....i've always thought the same as harrym. the last great invention we had was the space shuttle....and kids today...don't even get me started on them!! they don't even know what happened in July 1969!!! a historical event....who on here knows?
 
I wish I had the answer! Karting has become so fragmented with so many classes and series. Seems like every 3 months a new series and organization is popping up somewhere. Its hard to keep track of everything going on in karting these days. Like I heard someone say a few months ago, its like the wild wild west in karting.

Steve
 
Actually, it may be largely because we didn't have an internet to use as a crutch to make life easy. We HAD to figure it out ourselves. We didn't have the convenience of questions and answers with the click of a button. JMHO -Alan-
 
We live in a different world of learning than when you and I grew up. Teaching techniques have taken a drastic turn. ( I have went through it as a teacher ) The "no child left behind act " that was implemented in our schools is primarily the culprit. Let's take a look at participation and learning. It has been the consensus of those who make the laws of "no child left behind" that there should be a reward for effort, win or loose. In some ways I agree with it and in others I disagree. However, Think about it this way. You mentioned giving a trophy to last place. That isn't a bad idea for a rookie child in the red plate class for the first year. Even though he didn't finish well, he still has something to show for his efforts and he is willing to return to try again. Now, that can go by the wayside if the parent isn't helping with the fact that the child needs to be encouraged to do better next time. Don't take this the wrong way and maybe it isn't the best explanation but did you ever notice how well a dog learns when he is rewarded? Now, continually rewarding for negative efforts is not a good thing.
 
the question that they all ask today is "why should i do the work? you can do it for me".....i've always thought the same as harrym. the last great invention we had was the space shuttle....and kids today...don't even get me started on them!! they don't even know what happened in July 1969!!! a historical event....who on here knows?
I remember that day quite well, it was the day we move from Santa Clara to Redwood City. And I, just like pretty much everybody else, love moving. And I remember the last thing we moved was the TV set. There was just no way I was going to miss that 1st step on the moon. If it wasn’t for that little distraction, we could have probably moved in half the time.
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
 
Actually, it may be largely because we didn't have an internet to use as a crutch to make life easy. We HAD to figure it out ourselves. We didn't have the convenience of questions and answers with the click of a button. JMHO -Alan-

I agree, with the internet there is a wealth of information we didn't have when I grew up.

I like to learn something on my own so I'll search forums, YouTube, etc and become somewhat knowledgeable on a topic at hand.

In schools today I think there is less interest from kids wanting to take shop classes that provided us with some of the basic technical fundamentals.

Kids today do most of their learning online.

JMTC

.
 
Maybe it's because some of us came from a time when we couldn't afford some of the things we desired, we learned how to make or do it ourselves, or do without, no cell phones, Ipads, internet, etal. just like today folks want to do machine work by CNC control, and most of them are lost when it comes to making the first part from an idea or sketch.
 
as a person from a younger generation who has had internet but still likes to do things himself i find it an important part of the process to first ask how and what others have done. I think it is essential to see what has worked in the past, look to others for advice and then design and build your own according to that. Considering the reality that i dont have a lot of free time, and product..be it metal, wood, fiberglass...is not cheap its hard to afford to build things 5 times over to figure out the best way to construct something. Im sure yall old guys would research things in books and magazines..the internet just makes that process much easier.
 
No need to prove that you can re-invent the wheel.

You push forward by learning what others have already dealt with - and making it better.

This is the age of the internet. You see a lot more folks asking questions because there is a lot more knowledge available.

For every imitator, there are probably just as many thinking about the next big thing. Nothing to worry about.

Also, regardless of how you feel about China, they have built a monster economy by studying what we've already done - and they are beginning to surge from the back of the pack. Its just a matter of time before all their copying leads to innovation and competition (probably even leadership.)

So bottom line... Deal with it! :)
 
I dont think it has anything to do with lack of motivation or people not being innovative. I think it has more to do with time/money......lets face it, trial and error in racing is expensive...most people use previous ideas as a guide, and then improve on them with what they feel is best.
 
re-inventing the wheel is a bad idea....my philosophy is not to do that, but to find a way to make it better, more efficient and more cost effective. when you lose sight of the goal because of narrow mindedness, lack of creative will or just plain laziness, then we start to decline. things can be better for the karting community as a whole if we adapt to changes more readily and think beyond the end of our collective noses. there are those that will take advantage of you and claim the thought or idea as thier own. there are those that think of a new way to do things or to make it easier and yet, they won't open thier mouths to voice anything because they are afraid of being shot down or worse, ridiculed. time is money only pertains to those that think everything revolves around money. don't get me wrong, i don't foolishly spend money, nor do i pack away in mayo jars and bury it int he backyard! I just think that there is things that are still out there that should be brought to the table to make things better and more equal so that we all have a fighting chance.

and the event that i asked about was simple....man stepped foot off the planet earth for the first time...and alvin moved!!! :)
 
There's not nearly enough time for me to learn everything from my own mistakes, so I try to learn from others' mistakes too. It speeds up the learning curve. But I will innovate on my own in the areas I have interest (and time) to. And I think time is the determining factor. I'd rather focus on chassis design than tire prep chemistry, so I leave the Track-Tac, etc. You decide when it's worth it to pay someone else for their time and expertise. There's a satisfaction in doing everything on your own, but it takes a lot longer, and you have to be a lot luckier, to win often that way.
 
I'd like to take a stab at answering the original post. When yous tarted out you built it all and made it work you probably had one or two aspects you were really good at and were good enough at the rest. Today the rules are so constrictive and precise that you must be great at every aspect to be any good the engines are forced into a box where 1/4 hp is a big gain or loss tire rules keep you from playing with them for set up weight classes for drivers broken up and divided for ever 10lbs of weight. Its all about making sure its all "fair" thats a disgusting word by the way. Competition it seems even in racing is not appreciated or even respected
 
As I read through the post here on Bob's, and other sites, I see many many post of people wanting to how "how to build this, or how to build that....does anybody have any plans to build this..."

What's happened? When I was a coming up racer, I figured things out on my own. If I needed something, and it had to be built, I figured it out myself and built it. I could step back and say, "Yep! I built that!" and it had much more meaning to me. People today seem like they don't want to bother with anything, that it's just easier to get someone else to do it, or use other peoples ideas and knowledge and not go through the bother of trying to figure things out. To me, when you do this, you'll never learn anything. Use your imagination! step back and say to yourself..."How can I make this, or make it better?"

I think innovation is gone today in racing. It's a lot easier to copy someones design or plans that THEY have worked hard to make. I hear so many people say, "we need to level the playing field," or you need to race by the book." I read somewhere that someone said, "if you go by the book, then you will never be any better than the person who wrote the book." I like that statement.

In just about every kids sport today...there are no losers, they are all winners. How is the kids suppose to learn everything when he runs dead last and still gets a first place trophy? Sure, it makes the kid feel good, but I think that is setting them up for a lot of disappointments later on in life when they find out that they can not always be first, or win.

In my 40+ years of racing and being in the racing business, I have seen many changes....some good, and some not so good. Come on guys!....open up your brains and tool boxes and get creative. Don't just copy someones hard work, jump in and do it yourselves....figure it out, and you can step back and say...."Yep, I built that!" You'll be surprised at what you can do and all the fun you will have doing it. This country today manufactures just about nothing. Not long ago, we used to out manufacture the world...and did it with people who could barely read or write. Now we manufacture nothing, and our economy shows it. Now, everything is , quick, easy and cheap, and we live in a throw away society. I have been a fabricator for many years and that is something I love to do. I have built mini bikes out of old bicycle frames and lawnmower engines when I was a kid, to Sprint car chassis and it was fun and educational. Let's get our creative thoughts flowing and build something on our own.

OK....I'm done ranting. Back to the coffee pot.

yeah, but that was back before the telephone and computer
 
As I read through the post here on Bob's, and other sites, I see many many post of people wanting to how "how to build this, or how to build that....does anybody have any plans to build this..."

What's happened? When I was a coming up racer, I figured things out on my own. If I needed something, and it had to be built, I figured it out myself and built it. I could step back and say, "Yep! I built that!" and it had much more meaning to me. People today seem like they don't want to bother with anything, that it's just easier to get someone else to do it, or use other peoples ideas and knowledge and not go through the bother of trying to figure things out. To me, when you do this, you'll never learn anything. Use your imagination! step back and say to yourself..."How can I make this, or make it better?"

I think innovation is gone today in racing. It's a lot easier to copy someones design or plans that THEY have worked hard to make. I hear so many people say, "we need to level the playing field," or you need to race by the book." I read somewhere that someone said, "if you go by the book, then you will never be any better than the person who wrote the book." I like that statement.

In just about every kids sport today...there are no losers, they are all winners. How is the kids suppose to learn everything when he runs dead last and still gets a first place trophy? Sure, it makes the kid feel good, but I think that is setting them up for a lot of disappointments later on in life when they find out that they can not always be first, or win.

In my 40+ years of racing and being in the racing business, I have seen many changes....some good, and some not so good. Come on guys!....open up your brains and tool boxes and get creative. Don't just copy someones hard work, jump in and do it yourselves....figure it out, and you can step back and say...."Yep, I built that!" You'll be surprised at what you can do and all the fun you will have doing it. This country today manufactures just about nothing. Not long ago, we used to out manufacture the world...and did it with people who could barely read or write. Now we manufacture nothing, and our economy shows it. Now, everything is , quick, easy and cheap, and we live in a throw away society. I have been a fabricator for many years and that is something I love to do. I have built mini bikes out of old bicycle frames and lawnmower engines when I was a kid, to Sprint car chassis and it was fun and educational. Let's get our creative thoughts flowing and build something on our own.

OK....I'm done ranting. Back to the coffee pot.

I just want to say... with out places like bobs I wouldn't have learned a lot of what I know a bought these little motors!!! I come from other forms of racing and had no one to teach me a bout these... I found my self in a place of wanting to learn and a lack of some one to teach me... I owe a lot of people a big thanks for the help!!! im not saying im a smart guy... I just didn't know... I don't steal other peoples work!!! but yes I may like what they have done and ask questions to learn... I do believe that every one should put in the work to learn... and I also think that learning leads to invention... and if we as a hole would teach the younger generation how to work, how to learn, and how to make, then this country could be what it once was... but we don't teach that any more!!! we teach do less, get more, and only work when you have to... and that needs to change... other wise we will be a country that lives off others... bring back the want to learn, and work... and you will bring back what our for fathers tried to teach!!!
 
..."I also think that learning leads to invention... and if we as a hole would teach the younger generation how to work, how to learn, and how to make, then this country could be what it once was... but we don't teach that any more!!! we teach do less, get more, and only work when you have to... and that needs to change... other wise we will be a country that lives off others... bring back the want to learn, and work... and you will bring back what our for fathers tried to teach!!!


I like a lot of your statement. "Bringing back the want to learn". My feeling is today folks don't want to learn, they just want someone else to do all the work for them.
 
I think you all have valid points... I came up in between the 'baby boomers' and the 'milleniums'... watching the kids change has been heart-wrenching... I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd try to instill the work ethic I learned from my folks... put in the time to learn to do what you need or want done... have the drive to learn, and then do it! I agree that is missing from today's generation. DynoDon... I feel for you as a teacher. Trying to teach kids who may or may not want to learn... may you lead by example! Thanks harrym for starting this discussion!
 
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