Where to put tach

rainman

Premium User
Agreed. Once you're on the track, you got what you got. No need to make it complicated. If you need a tach/temp to tell that your engine isn't running right, you need more experience.
I don't agree at all. You can hear the engine and the change of pitch sometimes, but that is not always the case when racing with other people, and temps are actually more important than other data, and of course you can do something, that's why we have needles on the carb, unless you are running a carb without them with jets instead, and that's why a driver that can see and read that data will always beat your driver. Back in the 90s on ICA the best drivers in the world were not those with better driving skills, but those who could tune the engines while driving and play with the needles, and also give feedback to their engineers and mechanics, and I am talking about people like Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher. What I agree is that you do not need a thousand things, just the basics, like rpms and temps, otherwise it becomes a distractions instead of help, and I have used lap times a lot when testing or practice. I don't really understand how G-Forces and other stuff can help a driver without much experience. By the way I do have enough experience, and in fact i have not only raced for over 25 years, dirt ovals, sprint asphalt, road racing, 2 and 4 strokes, even a Wankel engine i own, and have tested for different teams to develop chassis, especially during my years in Europe, so i do know what I am talking about. Back on those days many of us didn't have a tach and survived, yes, but a simple Mychron 2 or 3 would have prevented many mistakes and make things much easier. If your driver can't change anything or adapt once in the track then it will be your driver who need help to understand some basics, again especially if using a carb with needles that can be adjusted, and there are many things you cannot see or feel from the pit area even if you use the tach data.
 

jaymancds

Premium User
I don't agree at all. You can hear the engine and the change of pitch sometimes, but that is not always the case when racing with other people, and temps are actually more important than other data, and of course you can do something, that's why we have needles on the carb, unless you are running a carb without them with jets instead, and that's why a driver that can see and read that data will always beat your driver. Back in the 90s on ICA the best drivers in the world were not those with better driving skills, but those who could tune the engines while driving and play with the needles, and also give feedback to their engineers and mechanics, and I am talking about people like Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher. What I agree is that you do not need a thousand things, just the basics, like rpms and temps, otherwise it becomes a distractions instead of help, and I have used lap times a lot when testing or practice. I don't really understand how G-Forces and other stuff can help a driver without much experience. By the way I do have enough experience, and in fact i have not only raced for over 25 years, dirt ovals, sprint asphalt, road racing, 2 and 4 strokes, even a Wankel engine i own, and have tested for different teams to develop chassis, especially during my years in Europe, so i do know what I am talking about. Back on those days many of us didn't have a tach and survived, yes, but a simple Mychron 2 or 3 would have prevented many mistakes and make things much easier. If your driver can't change anything or adapt once in the track then it will be your driver who need help to understand some basics, again especially if using a carb with needles that can be adjusted, and there are many things you cannot see or feel from the pit area even if you use the tach data.
I don't know of anyone who is changing the tune or the needles while on the racing surface. Typically, I'm only on track for 5 minutes at the most. "back in the 90s" That's 30 years ago, and while anecdotally true, the best driver may not know anything about the kart they are on. I'd have a hard time believing that drivers at the top of any sport know exactly what the vehicle they are driving is doing. F1 drivers do not adjust the cars, NASCAR drivers do not adjust the cars, and a fair amount of top dirt racers do not adjust their own cars. They may help in the work, but many do not know why they are changing what they are.

I like having data... but not while I'm actively trying to race. Save the data for the decisions in the trailer, let the driver drive. A driver that can tell by feeling the forces, the vibrations, hearing the tone, listening for the input of the tires, etc. is who is the better driver IMO. If your driver feels he is too loose, then tighten him up. If he feels he needs more mid-range power, then help him out. A driver that can tell the engine isn't right by feeling is who will be the better driver IMO.
 
One thing about temp is I am running a 100 dollar predator. By the time it gets to an unsafe temp it is already burning up the internals. I have spare motors so I am just gonna run them until they blow especially in the feature. They are built so cheap that it personally doesnt bother me to burn one up in a feature. If I had a 1200+ dollar clone I wouldnt burn it down but this is a harbor freight motor...Burn that thing to the ground. IMO
 

jaymancds

Premium User
One thing about temp is I am running a 100 dollar predator. By the time it gets to an unsafe temp it is already burning up the internals. I have spare motors so I am just gonna run them until they blow especially in the feature. They are built so cheap that it personally doesnt bother me to burn one up in a feature. If I had a 1200+ dollar clone I wouldnt burn it down but this is a harbor freight motor...Burn that thing to the ground. IMO
When I still had a CHT sender on mine, it would hit 450-550 all night long especially in the mid to late summer when it's 95+ air temp. They can get very very hot and still run great. Gotta remember what they are designed for. Generators, where they run 3800 rpm for hours and hours and hours. A little heat wont hurt.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
Get you a two stroke , flathead or anything with a tilly .
Quickly you will be turning the needles .
We are talking about clone racing, which what the OP races, and even in flathead, my Jr racers sure wasn't twisting needles, and in my many years running flatheads, I adjusted once that I remember
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
I don't agree at all. You can hear the engine and the change of pitch sometimes, but that is not always the case when racing with other people, and temps are actually more important than other data, and of course you can do something, that's why we have needles on the carb, unless you are running a carb without them with jets instead, and that's why a driver that can see and read that data will always beat your driver. Back in the 90s on ICA the best drivers in the world were not those with better driving skills, but those who could tune the engines while driving and play with the needles, and also give feedback to their engineers and mechanics, and I am talking about people like Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher. What I agree is that you do not need a thousand things, just the basics, like rpms and temps, otherwise it becomes a distractions instead of help, and I have used lap times a lot when testing or practice. I don't really understand how G-Forces and other stuff can help a driver without much experience. By the way I do have enough experience, and in fact i have not only raced for over 25 years, dirt ovals, sprint asphalt, road racing, 2 and 4 strokes, even a Wankel engine i own, and have tested for different teams to develop chassis, especially during my years in Europe, so i do know what I am talking about. Back on those days many of us didn't have a tach and survived, yes, but a simple Mychron 2 or 3 would have prevented many mistakes and make things much easier. If your driver can't change anything or adapt once in the track then it will be your driver who need help to understand some basics, again especially if using a carb with needles that can be adjusted, and there are many things you cannot see or feel from the pit area even if you use the tach data.
Not talking 30 years ago, talking about clone racing, no one is adjusting them while on the track.
And yes I pay attention to all data
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
We are talking about clone racing, which what the OP races, and even in flathead, my Jr racers sure wasn't twisting needles, and in my many years running flatheads, I adjusted once that I remember
2 1/2 turns out .
Stockers not so much , Stock Appering a little more .
Technically if you turn the needle you have adjusted it .
The original question was where do i put my tach with short leads ?
Now it has transitioned to carb tuning ..
Though inexpensive these predator engines are actually quite good for the dollars spent .
 

rainman

Premium User
Not talking 30 years ago, talking about clone racing, no one is adjusting them while on the track.
And yes I pay attention to all data
Well I have raced clones too and I have also built them, and though you can't adjust them while driving on the track a driver can take a different line to allow the engine to cool down if it is tight, for example.
 
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rainman

Premium User
I don't know of anyone who is changing the tune or the needles while on the racing surface. Typically, I'm only on track for 5 minutes at the most. "back in the 90s" That's 30 years ago, and while anecdotally true, the best driver may not know anything about the kart they are on. I'd have a hard time believing that drivers at the top of any sport know exactly what the vehicle they are driving is doing. F1 drivers do not adjust the cars, NASCAR drivers do not adjust the cars, and a fair amount of top dirt racers do not adjust their own cars. They may help in the work, but many do not know why they are changing what they are.

I like having data... but not while I'm actively trying to race. Save the data for the decisions in the trailer, let the driver drive. A driver that can tell by feeling the forces, the vibrations, hearing the tone, listening for the input of the tires, etc. is who is the better driver IMO. If your driver feels he is too loose, then tighten him up. If he feels he needs more mid-range power, then help him out. A driver that can tell the engine isn't right by feeling is who will be the better driver IMO.
1st of all 2 of the best F1 drivers ever are Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso. If there is something that made them great is their technical level over the rest. So yes, both of them checked the data with their engineers, and even in karting they did. I did race at the same campionship as Fernando in a different class when he was just a kid, so I know exactly what he could do and why he was and still is so good. 30 years ago the data was more limited, but it was used by the top teams.
 
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XXX#40

2A supporter
Well I have races clones too and I have also built them, and though you can't adjust them while driving on the track a driver can take a different line to allow the engine to cool down if it is tight, for example.
Bs, for 22yrs we have put tachs where Jr's couldn't see them.
Now run along and do what ever you've been doing.
Changing a line to cool an clone lol you're clueless and this comment proves it
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
1st of all you should all read the original post and who oistedit. Ted mostly plays with 2 strokes, so yes, he does adjust the carb and need to see the temps, otherwise he wouldn't need the sensor. 2 d 2 of the best F1 drivers ever are Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso. If there is something that made them great is their technical level over the rest. So yes, both of them checked the data with their engineers, and even in karting they did. I did race at the same campionship as Fernando in a different class when he was just a kid, so I know exactly what he could do and why he was a d still is so good. 30 years ago the data was more limited, but it was used by the top teams.
The OP of this thread is a beginner racing clones on dirt oval, take your sprint trash back to ekarting
 

jaymancds

Premium User
There is a reason he calls himself MO Predator Racer. But yes, anything that applies to 2 strokes I really don't think he is overly concerned about right now. He just wants to know where to put his tach that has short leads. Personally, id put it anywhere that it will fit and can be easily checked post race.
 

rainman

Premium User
Bs, for 22yrs we have put tachs where Jr's couldn't see them.
Now run along and do what ever you've been doing.
Changing a line to cool an clone lol you're clueless and this comment proves it
Guess you ignore who I am and how many races I have won on dirt ovals before I started racing UAS but I will leave it here. i havecraces morevon dirt ovals than on sprint tracks, just for your information, and not only that but I have set up many new drivers karts and they have won races too. Say whatever you want but a driver who cannot use a tach to give feedback nowadays will not go far in racing. i know people working for NASCAR, F1, LeMans series, Indy... and if you tell them you have a driver unable to read a tach they will laugh at you. The only thing my comment proves is that you are not paying enough attention to important things for being the best at a track,
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
Guess you ignore who I am and how many races I have won on dirt ovals before I started racing UAS but I will leave it here. i havecraces morevon dirt ovals than on sprint tracks, just for your information, and not only that but I have set up many new drivers karts and they have won races too. Say whatever you want but a driver who cannot use a tach to give feedback nowadays will not go far in racing. i know people working for NASCAR, F1, LeMans series, Indy... and if you tell them you have a driver unable to read a tach they will laugh at you. The only thing my comment proves is that you are not paying enough attention to important things for being the best at a track,
We aren't talking about nascar or f1 lol.
I don't care who you are.
Last night every Jr sportsman champ, the tach was on the back of the seat, the predator class out of 25 only 2 had a tach.
The tach gives the feedback when they come off the track, no matter where it's mounted
 
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