With This Fuel & Oil Additive problem continuing to get more out of hand, Makes me Wonder Why ?

racing promotor

Moderator
With This Fuel & Oil Additive problem continuing to get more out of hand, Makes me Wonder Why ?

Are all of us Track Owner / Operator's left to find the ways in detecting it ?
Why is AKRA, WKA and the other Rule Committee's not doing more testing to announce sure fire ways of detecting it, so we can clean this deal up.
 

DynoDon

Moderator
Ken, I know you and your tech man have gone out of your way to find ways to catch illegal additives in fuel and oil. I also have been working on a method to determine legality. Problem is the gasoline is like the engines that come from China!!! No two are alike. From all the research I have done, I have discovered that the digitron ( the latest model out and the reason I say that is because there were additives that would get by the last model ) is the only sure fire way to catch it. I know this for a fact through my research. With that being said, it is extremely important that the guy doing the test knows what he is doing. Unfortunately, that Digitron is expensive. It is just to bad we are involved in such a really neat sport that there are those who feel the need to not play fair.
 
I think it's because it's become more difficult, WKA always recommended a water test for alky, which will catch a lot of additives, for gas it was more difficult and the digitron fuel meter was used calibrated with cyclohexane, that test was not totally sufficient, and could be fooled somewhat. The only surefire way would be to send a sample off to a lab for testing and because of the expense and lag time that's not a viable solution either, maybe the lab test is the only real solution , let the racers know it will happen , take a sample of the winner's fuel and a month later or whenever the results come back if it's found illegal ban them from the track for life.
 
unfortunately,alky has it's own set of problems,not easily detected.the equipment needed is expensive and, as mentioned above,the tech guys better know what they are looking at.there's nothing more frustrating than knowing a competitor has "questionable" fuel and not being able to do something about it!
 

borgerspr

New member
Ken, most people are missing the big picture here and it is not just a matter of someone cheating to gain an advantage.There are known carcinogens in fuel and oil additives and I don't even want to go into what is in tire prep. At Borgers we have a strict no tire prep rule and fuel rule. Keep in mind there are now testing devices that can detect parts per billion and in some cases parts per trillion. In other words if it is there it can be detected.

Oil and fuel is spilled in the pits. Exhaust particulates setttle on to the track and pits. Tire residu also settles on the track and in the pits. Rain washes all these bad things off site and who knows where they go. I am surprised the anti racing public has not got wind of this. Once they do and once they get a track shut down because of this the tracks will fall like dominos once a precedent is set.

People have known about this for a long time and nothing is being done about it. Something must be done now before it is too late.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Ken, I know you and your tech man have gone out of your way to find ways to catch illegal additives in fuel and oil. I also have been working on a method to determine legality. Problem is the gasoline is like the engines that come from China!!! No two are alike. From all the research I have done, I have discovered that the digitron ( the latest model out and the reason I say that is because there were additives that would get by the last model ) is the only sure fire way to catch it. I know this for a fact through my research. With that being said, it is extremely important that the guy doing the test knows what he is doing. Unfortunately, that Digitron is expensive. It is just to bad we are involved in such a really neat sport that there are those who feel the need to not play fair.

I don't mind spending the money if and it's a big if it detects everything, I've been told the new Digitron are a lot better but still not full proof, your so correct the guy doing the test needs to know what he's doing, that's partially my point these rule bodies man sure there's better training for Parts Tech but seem to just overlook Fuel, we need to find those sure fire ways and you need to make it part of the training.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Ken, most people are missing the big picture here and it is not just a matter of someone cheating to gain an advantage.There are known carcinogens in fuel and oil additives and I don't even want to go into what is in tire prep. At Borgers we have a strict no tire prep rule and fuel rule. Keep in mind there are now testing devices that can detect parts per billion and in some cases parts per trillion. In other words if it is there it can be detected.

Oil and fuel is spilled in the pits. Exhaust particulates setttle on to the track and pits. Tire residu also settles on the track and in the pits. Rain washes all these bad things off site and who knows where they go. I am surprised the anti racing public has not got wind of this. Once they do and once they get a track shut down because of this the tracks will fall like dominos once a precedent is set.

People have known about this for a long time and nothing is being done about it. Something must be done now before it is too late.

Your so Correct, I've come to find out about how toxic some of these fuel and oil additives really are, and have learned some EXTREMELY SERIOUS stuff being exposed, that that has brought to light to me just how important it is for ALL of the Tracks to get on the same page and work together 100%, that's the ONLY shot we got at getting a grasp on it.
 

C&L_MOTORSPORTS

New member
Do a simple pump around. I know it takes time but at least everybodys running the same fuel. Have them bring the kart to the grid with an empty fuel tank. we did it for years with the flatheads and some tracks still use this method.
 

alvin l nunley

Site Supporter
In the early days of karting there were no fuel rules. You could run any fuel you wanted. You could run any additive you wanted. They did have rules on carburetors to prevent them from passing straight alky, but we soon found ways to get straight alky through the Mac carburetor, so I K F just gave up and let us do anything we wanted to the CARB. It wasn't easy, but if you really KNEW how to tune a Mac, you could get by with it, but it was hard on the newcomers. The gas only rule only came about when we started running the KT. A water test, something new in 1976, (why we didn't know about this before was a mystery too me) was used to make sure we would never have to worry about running alky again. But then; some got very inventive with additives. There are additives that are very detrimental to your health, at least one I know of is even a class A carcinogens. 1-4 dioxen is one of them. It's very hard to detect, but it is definitely a performance enhancing chemical.
 

borgerspr

New member
I don't mind spending the money if and it's a big if it detects everything, I've been told the new Digitron are a lot better but still not full proof, your so correct the guy doing the test needs to know what he's doing, that's partially my point these rule bodies man sure there's better training for Parts Tech but seem to just overlook Fuel, we need to find those sure fire ways and you need to make it part of the training.

The devices I am referring to that are used by EPA you would not be able to purchase. They are using devices that run in the six figures.
 

Pavehawk

New member
Just as much or more being added to alky so that's not the answer all you would have would be an even faster cheater motor.

But its a simple answer. They can use the same test for all classes. Plus I dont have to keep a ton of tiny little gas cans, stop at gas stations before races to get a few gallons fuel then have to turn around at the end of the night and find something to drain it into. Its a pain in the backside... People are always posting about people either beating the fuel test, getting screwed by the fuel test or how can they do the fuel test better. The big reason to switch is alky smells great...lol.
 

W5R

New member
But its a simple answer. They can use the same test for all classes. Plus I dont have to keep a ton of tiny little gas cans, stop at gas stations before races to get a few gallons fuel then have to turn around at the end of the night and find something to drain it into. Its a pain in the backside... People are always posting about people either beating the fuel test, getting screwed by the fuel test or how can they do the fuel test better. The big reason to switch is alky smells great...lol.

The thing about making everyone have to use Alky, is that not everyone has access to alky where they live and race, and for those that dont, it becomes alot more expensive to get it and defeats the purpose of budget racing. It is common sense to stick with gasoline that can be found at any gas station anywhere in the country rather than alky that can only be purchased at certain places or shops that sell it. Like others have said, running alky also comes with its own set of problems, it is not just a cure all fix for the fuel problems at hand. If you like to use alky so much, just run a class that allows you to use it.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Do a simple pump around. I know it takes time but at least everybodys running the same fuel. Have them bring the kart to the grid with an empty fuel tank. we did it for years with the flatheads and some tracks still use this method.

Pump around is useless, guy's using this newer stuff will still cheat the pump around.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
But its a simple answer. They can use the same test for all classes. Plus I dont have to keep a ton of tiny little gas cans, stop at gas stations before races to get a few gallons fuel then have to turn around at the end of the night and find something to drain it into. Its a pain in the backside... People are always posting about people either beating the fuel test, getting screwed by the fuel test or how can they do the fuel test better. The big reason to switch is alky smells great...lol.

Ya they can use the same test, there lies the problem 80% or more of the products being used does not show up in those test.
Plus my post says FUEL did not mean just gas, meant BOTH.
 

mikey56

New member
your opening a while new can of worms when you start talking about all the crap, yes I call it like I see it, crap that's being put into tire prep these days. crap that can burn if it gets on your skin, known carcinogens, extremely flammable and volatile liquids...crap that can and will kill you if ingested, absorbed or breathed in......and you have people on here expounding how great this crap is. and when your racing behind them, you are exposing yourself to it!! then you add in the crap that they are putting in the fuel that gets blasted out the pipe straight into your face? even wearing a full face helmet, your exposed!! all in the name of winning a race and risking your health....sometimes I wonder just how stupid some people are when it comes to creating stuff that will harm them and anyone else around them....and they do it in their house or shop and a lot of times, they have their little kids around them!!

off the soap box now....back to watching wrestling..........last words....wise up folks before you kill yourself or your young ones trying to create the greatest prep in the world.....
 
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