Beginner Tire Question

CarsonRocket

New member
I have read a ton of these posts on tires and the different preps used to reach a certain Duro reading. How important is it to a jr beginners success to have the tires perfect? Does the proper duro matter at this stage of the game? How much attention should be placed on tires ? Besides tires what else should a beginner dad concentrate on when learning how to set up a kart?
 
Few ways to condition tires to help make the driving a lil easier for the young one.. With too hard of tires you would be hurting his chance to learn faster.. BUT again maybe that's sentence is backwards,, terrible set will make him work his tail off and when he gets a good set he will appreciate them and hug your neck..

You don't need the best but conditioning the tires is much needed... Send me your name and address and I will send you a FREE gal of Tire Rehad.. JD
 
Absolutely take Jerry's offer and advice, the Race Tire Rehab is the best stuff out there, great cleaner and conditioner both!
 
I have read a ton of these posts on tires and the different preps used to reach a certain Duro reading. How important is it to a jr beginners success to have the tires perfect? Does the proper duro matter at this stage of the game? How much attention should be placed on tires ? Besides tires what else should a beginner dad concentrate on when learning how to set up a kart?

Youre more often than not, not going to be perfect on tires, the Pros dont hit it perfect even close to everytime. So dont worry yourself on that, try to learn from every time on track.
To me it was pretty important for my Jr driver to feel comfortable on the track, so my tires had to be close. If youre not close, they will feel like they want to slide around and thats not fun for a kid. Make them feel fast, comfy, and they will have fun and want to do it. Now fast to a new kid may not actually be that fast to you, but remember its all about fun and HOW they feel that will make them want to do it again.
Tires are a huge part of karting, and will make or break you at winning a race. Set up is the easy part, put your percentages where they need be, along with caster and camber, concentrate on tires.
Remember this is all about the driver/child. Make it fun, and they will want to keep at it.
 
Seat time of course is most important they have to have enough to feel comfortable enough to race, but once there past that hurdle MOMENTUM is King in plate racing, make sure they understand MOMENTUM max it out on whichever track there on, Because if they are getting completely out of the throttle in stead of working it, or running up behind slower karts and tailing them instead of timing it right and just passing them, that KILLS momentum and as long as there is others in the race utilizing there momentum your not going to over come it.
I agree with Earl tires need to be with in reason for him to learn, Plus if your tires are off to much your RPM's will be off as well, and you will chase gearing till it drives you crazy, I 've never been to any track where some of the faster SR drivers would not go out of there way to Help out the little guy's, pick one of the faster SR drivers and ask for tire Help, Don't think anyone has there program perfect, If I attend a Hundred races a year I MIGHT see 3 perfect karts all season, A Perfect kart will get your attention.

Good Luck !!
 
I tend to agree with Earl here. I like to get my rookie drivers (kids and adults) confident and comfortable with the handling of their car early on. That means we are going to give up a little speed for handling (ie too locked down to be real fast.) Nothing discourages a kid more than to spin or crash and let down his hero, Dad. If they're scared that the kart won't turn, or that it will spin, they won't push the pedal.
Start him/her out with the kart just a little too "stuck" so they are confident that the car will do what they expect it to do. Then work on freeing it up a little at a time until it's fast.
If you start out with a nice and free (aka fast) set up, the car will be backwards as much as it is pointed in the right direction -- that usually results in torn up spindles, bodies, graphics, etc. = dejected driver. (<NOT the way your kid wants to bring the car back to Dad.)
I wouldn't even mind if the car is slightly gear bound and flat locked down as long as they could keep their foot in it and make consistent smooth laps. Make little changes at a time and work on your communication of what the car is doing / not doing.
Speed will come over time - don't rush the process.
Having the driver "comfortable" is so very important early on.


-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
26 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
I have read a ton of these posts on tires and the different preps used to reach a certain Duro reading. How important is it to a jr beginners success to have the tires perfect?
Think of it this way; they don't teach calculus in the 5th grade.

If you put perfect tires on a beginners kart, how is he going to know that they're perfect with no knowledge database to refer to. And if they go away, how will he know? He wouldn't know what a bad tire feels like!

It's a learning process, start from the beginning. If he comes in from a race and says he can't keep up with somebody through the corner, and you put better tires on the kart, and then he can keep up with the other guys, that will stick with him. He will be learning. He will know the difference between a good tire and a bad tire. Later, if the tire is not right, this knowledge will help him explain to you what's going on.

I doubt the best tires in the world would help a beginner. I can even see where they might hurt.
 
I have read a ton of these posts on tires and the different preps used to reach a certain Duro reading. How important is it to a jr beginners success to have the tires perfect? Does the proper duro matter at this stage of the game? How much attention should be placed on tires ? Besides tires what else should a beginner dad concentrate on when learning how to set up a kart?

Go race. It's first about seat time, seat time and seat time.

Both chassis adjustments and tire adjustments, involve learning what you need to do, to change how your kart works out on the track. The general learning curve all go through is about gaining experience in different areas, so you can put problems in those areas for the most part, out of the way. Along with learning to drive and race I think this is the general sequence you'll go through. First it's is my clutch set right and my engine ok. Most often that phase is fixed by learning how to rebuild and set your clutch or buy a new clutch and learn to set it. The engine curve goes the same way. Most end up just biting the bullet and buying an engine they know should be as good as most out there.

Then comes learning how all the adjustments on your kart effect on track performance.

That takes study and learning to see changes out on the track. You'll become skilled in chassis adjusting, when you get to the point where you see an on track problem and no longer have to think about what adjustment to make. You will think in terms of how you need to change the operation of the kart on the track, and will look to adjustments only with the idea of how they will make the chassis or tires do what you already know needs done on the track. You won't look for a specific adjustment to fix a problem, you'll sort know how each will change the flow of forces on the track, and select one or more things to alter how forces work on the track.

Then there's tires.

Changing how tires work with the track, will change how forces move around and through your kart out on the track. It makes this and the last paragraph work together. Do you change how forces are applied to tires and make tires work differently, or do you change how tires work via prep air pressure, etc., to move forces around.

All that to say it's first seat time, seat time and seat time.

Then get your clutch and engine in the ball park.

And last if not first, find out what are a general set of tires you can put on the kart and how most prep them. You'll get told an answer about it that you'll need this set early on, maybe another mid way during the race time, and maybe a different set for the feature. Find out what the mid way tires are for your track, get them first and then it's seat time, seat time and seat time, along with learning how chassis adjustments effect things.

... sorry to be confusing, I do like to write and only use anything I write to mix into what others write, because in racing ... it all depends. ...
 
Think of it this way; they don't teach calculus in the 5th grade.

If you put perfect tires on a beginners kart, how is he going to know that they're perfect with no knowledge database to refer to. And if they go away, how will he know? He wouldn't know what a bad tire feels like!

It's a learning process, start from the beginning. If he comes in from a race and says he can't keep up with somebody through the corner, and you put better tires on the kart, and then he can keep up with the other guys, that will stick with him. He will be learning. He will know the difference between a good tire and a bad tire. Later, if the tire is not right, this knowledge will help him explain to you what's going on.

I doubt the best tires in the world would help a beginner. I can even see where they might hurt.

Al I do not understand why you comment on dirt racing tires when you have zero exp with them! A good set of good prepped tires for the conditions never hurt anyone! A good set of prepped tires for the correct conditions will help the youngster in knowing what a good set feels like...He then can come back and say I like the way they felt and when the tires are not right he can come back and say I like the way they were before this set! A good prep program is just that! When picking a prep line go with one that is simplified not a bunch of different ones. Get on the program and try different things with in the prep program to establish which one is correct for the conditions! It is a learning curve and will take some time that will be time well spent for in the future! Do not forget to take some notes to see what worked for the conditions and what didn't. Learn how to see when and how the track changes for the correct prep to put on. Air pressure can be your friend and enemy at the same time...Too much air on a good prepped tire can make you feel like you are not on enough prep...Too little air can make you seem like you are to aggressive with the prep...Getting to know the track and see the changes will help determine how much air and prep to use in the correct conditions...Do not be afraid to experiment a little. Just remind the little guy that if it does not feel controallable to not run it as hard so he or she does not put it in the fence and cause more problems. Watch his race if he looks loose in the center of the corner the kart might be tight and when it rotates it snaps loose. He may come in and say it is loose but in reallity a lot of times if he says that it breaks loose in the corner it is his entrance to the corner that could be wrong and he is pushing in and then snaps loose. Same effect for exiting the corner he may say it is pushing off the corner but make sure his entry was correct before making changes. A gopro on his helmet will help you if he does not understand what the kart is doing..It allows you to watch the video of him driving and see what his hands are doing..exmaple if he has the wheel cranked hard left entering and to the apex the kart is pushing but was his entry correct? It will allow you to watch his line and see for yourself what the kart and driver are doing...One of the hardest things to get a new young driver to learn is the racing line!!! Hope this helps and Good luck!!!
 
I think there two schools of thought to help a new driver through the learning curve.

The first is put a new driver in something of limited capability, but able to operate up to it's capability. Let the driver learn to use something at a lower level and then move the driver up to something more responsive and capable.

The second is put them out there in the best there is, which is also capable of winning and let them learn to use it.

Boxstock, clone or restricted racing, IMHO choose the second.

Your real problem is at this point you don't have the skill on your own, to do either.

That is why instead of just telling you something to do, I tried to offer help explaining to you the learning process I see most have to go through. In practice it's not as tough or as complex as it sounds or I made it to be.

Think of it as a journey, both you and your driver will be taking.

Sure you'll get towards the end of your journey, but it's going to be about the trip and stops along the way more then the end. That's because there is no end because racing moves on with or without you. You and I and all others involved, are just around to take our turn, taking care of racing for awhile.
 
After writing all that I think you first need to take into consideration what Brian Carlson explained.

You know your driver and you know what's best. But it is important to let them first experience some success in a kart(or life), which is going to go where they point it. We all race or are involved in racing to experience some success. The initial feel good about it, might be the most worth while thing you ever get out of racing. Give it to your driver first, as Brian suggested. Then move on, you will find you also received the same feel good. ... :)
 
If your running one track it will make it easier. Get on the correct stagger first, find out the adults air pressure, add 2 pounds for the kids on smaller plates. Most adults can tell you an average Duro that works on that track, ex:48-52 is usually fast.
 
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