bully immitation

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i have a 6 spring 6 lever with roller tip.. each one has 2 bolts, kicks in at real high rpm..
what is the best process to clean and prep after race day. this had been setting on the shelf... part of a package i bought... was in need of a clutch so just tossed it on... worked great...

it was covered with clay then sprayed off with water.. i have it disassembled now... do i use a sander (DA) on it or do i just lay each disk and plate on a ??? grit paper with a flat surface and scuff the surfaces that way.. it's a little rusty

what about the levers and rollers.. do i completely disassemble the levers and clean each one...
OH gold springs.... so whats the correct process... normally i use a drum clutch

Thanks
 
Definitely keep the DA sander well away from it.
You can get by with scuffing (lightly) the discs on sandpaper over a sheet of glass or surface plate. Always rotating the discs (and the way you are holding them) as you sand in a figure 8 pattern.) Even then, you will get some rounding at the edges of the plates.
Clutches really need to be machined properly (lathe and surface grinder) to keep them perfectly square.
As far as maintenance, I suggest that you blow it out with compressed air (clean - no oil or water) after each day of racing. To further clean the clutch, you can soak the discs and drive hub assembly in acetone for 10 minutes, then blow it out. Be sure to clean the bearings and basket separately (and then re-grease very lightly before re-assembly.)
Thoroughly cleaning by complete disassembly should be accompanied by machining and blueprinting upon reassembly.
One thing to be very concerned about is the orientation of the discs (which side is up, and the splines that they are engaged on) as they wear in together over time. Changing this orientation will all but guarantee that you will need to have the clutch re-machined by a professional. I grind a small indicator line at one of the springs from the activator plate all the way across the pressure plate, floater disc, and backing plate. When taking apart, I mark which side of each part is "up." That way when it's time to reassemble, everything goes back exactly as it was.



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Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
28 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
i have a 6 spring 6 lever with roller tip.. each one has 2 bolts, kicks in at real high rpm..
All the information in the previous post is good and you would do well to follow it, but my concern is the high engagement RPM. What is high, in rpm's? Carlson will tell you the same thing as me, the clutch should engage at peak torque RPM.
 
I did just that Brian,.. each and every part is laid out on my work station in the basement with markings and a drawing all in reference to the location from the key way of the clutch.. Key slot up 1-6 clock wise around in a circle.
Plates too, tops and bottoms, Each screw in its own hole drilled in a small block of 2x8 scrap wood

I'll do that, figure eight on glass pane, clean and reassemble.. I know the clutch was done properly at one time. so i'll try and take care of it.
 
To adjust the engagement, you would use dial or digital calipers and measure the height of the spring between the activator plate that the springs sit in, and the bottom of the retainer, that will give you your spring installed height. To get the engagement rpm down, you would turn the spring adjusters counter clockwise 1/2 turn at a time, then measure the spring height to make sure all are the same, put the clutch back on the engine, start it up, hold the brake and watch the tach to see what rpm the clutch engages at. repeat the adjustment until you get it to where you need to be. For a stock class clone, you will normally be between 3600 and 3800 for lite-medium adult classes, and between 3700-4000 for heavy-super heavy adult classes. For JR classes, 3200-3600 depending on the class and weight. There is a chart on Buller's website listing spring height's for different classes, weights and engines, that will give you a starting point for most of the knockoff Bully style clutches out there unless you have one that has tall springs like the Martinbuilt Touch and few others.

To clean them, i take the basket and thrust bearing/washers off, and soak the entire clutch in acetone for 10-15 minutes then blow it out with compressed air, clean the bearings with brake cleaner and blow out with air then relube, and reassemble it all. I break the entire clutch down every 10-15 races and resurface the discs, floater and all surfaces on a glass surface plate with 400 grit sandpaper, then clean all with acetone and blow off with air then reassemble. I know some say to pay close attention to the oreintation of the discs and floaters, but what i do is flip my discs over each time i break it down so that the tabs are wearing evenly on both sides instead of just one side getting worn....if you notice you will see that the edge of the tab on the disc that contacts the basket will usually be worn from the clutch engaging hard when it contacts the basket. I have never had a problem when flipping the discs like this, but i also am careful to make sure the surfaces of the floaters and backing plate are true and flat everytime i take the clutch apart. I know some people will run them half a season before ever taking the clutch apart, if that is the case then i can see how flipping the discs or floaters will cause problems when you put the clutch back together because the surfaces are going to wear differently....this is part of the reason why i break mine down as often as i do and keep everything as fresh as possible. I clean and maintain my clutch after every day of racing, sometimes before the feature's i will pull it off and clean everything well then put it back on. Usually halfway thru the season i will put new discs in my clutch, resurface all the floaters and surfaces, then reassemble and finish out the season with new discs, i have never had a problem with my clutches when doing it this way, and my clutch builder (Shannon Halbert @ GoFastHp) has never mentioned anything being worn beyond spec because of my methods. I suggest doing what your clutch builder wants you do to, if you have one.
 
I get myself into trouble disagreeing with people, but the clutch should be set at peak torque RPM. The idea that you should set the clutch at a higher RPM engagement, in a heavier class, doesn't make any sense. It only takes a simple explanation to "prove" why this is so.

If the clutch is holding the engine at peak torque RPM, that torque is transferred through the chain to the rear axle. RPM x torque / 5252.1 = HP. That's the formula for calculating horsepower. This tells you that with more torque at the axle, there's more horsepower at the axle. Setting the clutch RPM above the peak torque of the engine means there is less horsepower at the axle. Seems so simple to me!

It may be difficult to see the "why", but while the clutch is slipping, the HP at the engine is different from the HP at the axle. When the clutch locks up, no slip, then the HP is the same at the engine and the axle.
 
I still can't see how an engine with a 4 pound flywheel will accelerate faster from 3800 RPM to 7000 than it will accelerate from 4500 to 7000.
 
I still can't see how an engine with a 4 pound flywheel will accelerate faster from 3800 RPM to 7000 than it will accelerate from 4500 to 7000.
If an engine reaches peak torque at 3800 RPM, let's say 10 foot-pounds of torque, and then you slipped the clutch at 4500 RPM, let's say 9 foot-pounds of torque at this point. Can you see how the engine that is slipping the clutch at 3800 RPM can out accelerate the engine slipping the clutch at 4500 RPM? With 10 foot-pounds of torque at the axle, there's more horsepower than with 9 foot-pounds of torque at the axle.

Tell me if you have trouble understanding that, I'm not a great teacher.
 
Lets just say both of these clutches are locked in at 3800 and 4500.What happens when the 3800 engine gets to 4500?
 
Lets just say both of these clutches are locked in at 3800 and 4500.What happens when the 3800 engine gets to 4500?
all else being equal, if I understand the question, the 3800 RPM engine will be ahead of the 4500 RPM engine. Of course this assumes that both engines reached peak torque at 3800 RPM.
 
Will the 3800 RPM engine slow down once it gets to 4500 due to having less torque?
I think you're putting me on!

Horsepower, at the axle, determines the rate of acceleration. Once the engine rpm, divided by the gear ratio, is the same as the rpm of the axle, the horsepower at the engine is, for all practical purposes, identical to the horsepower at the axle. A typical horsepower curve, for a stocker, on average, peeks out near 6000 RPM. The horsepower at the axle determines the rate of acceleration. Of course rolling and wind resistance forces will affect that also. Once the engine passes peak horsepower, although there still may be enough to create some increase in speed, that rate of increase will dramatically decrease as the available horsepower decreases.
 
What happens when the 3800 10 ft pound torque engine get to 4500 when it drops to the same 9 ft/ pd of torq? Won't any of that extra pound of torque get used up trying to get the flywheel spinning?
 
At 3800 RPM. The flywheel is already spinning.
At that point the effort need to increase to 4500 is minimal at best.
 
Nothing happens, it keeps pulling at 4500, gaining more momentum and still accelerating since it is already moving....while the one starting at 4500 is just getting started
 
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