Burris 33’s

Ran my local track yesterday in Sr. Champ Clone on Burris 33’s. Started the day track was wet with a lot of bite, went out with one wipe of Goat before going to the grid and the kart was quick and stick anywhere I put it. I left the kart alone and waited for my heat race, by my heat I noticed the track had developed a prep grove so I once again done the tires the way I had before. First lap into the race the kart spun out, then for the rest of the race it was just trying to hold on as it was all over the track. For the main I added a washer of cross and a fresh set of tires. I dropped a 1/2lb of air all around and hit the tires with Goat before going to the grid. Once again the kart was skatey but I was able to hold onto it so it was a little better. Tires were punching 60 before prepping.
 
First Off there is NO such thing as wet and A lot of Grip , it's one or the other, wet Lacking grip , Or came around gained moisture still apparent but track then has 75 % of Max grip potential , which is a lot more than wet Lacking Grip .
Burris 33's are the most chemical sensitive tire I know off , And If you wipe anything when not needed , Or wipe to the Extreme on Aggressive prep like Goat when only a Medium base prep is needed , you will experience the dreaded Chemical slide and when way over done the Kart is Undrivable , For the Heat you say you left the kart alone , based on hot lap results Good move , then based on noticing change in the track you wipe another coat of Goat , there's where you went wrong, to Aggressive for then condition and Results Chemical slide most likely , so had you only wipe one coat of say hard track , OR re finished the tires and sprayed with SD 20 only pulled some prep and oils to the surface you might have been pretty good again , Remember that prep Groove was there because of everyone else wiping so much So your tires in driving through it had to pick some of that prep onto your tires , So with it being a True Champ Buggy A Fresh cut 33 NEVER prepped might have ended up hooking up once the tires picked up some off the prep groove , and If the had that would have been the fastest , Now where you went wrong in the Feature was miss reading the track condition and Adding cross , not that adding one washer effected hardly anything with set up , NO reason to do so WHY you ask cross is a fine tune adjustment in the first place and should be probably the LAST adjustment you should make to the kart , Should have fixed it with tires only , But once you went to a chassis adjustment Camber adjustments , move weight to raise or lower left , would be LONG before Cross , and If and when you do adjust cross NEVER only move 1 washer Always 2 or more , " UNLESS your a PRO and really got it figured out " WHY you ask again every chassis has a dead spot of atleast 2 % some even more, where making an adjustment does absolutely NOTHING that will show up in performance weather Negative or Positive, and you must know where that number is some may be 60 % to 62 % some maybe 58 % to 60 % some may be on the higher side 64 % to 66 % , all ya some may be even NO difference seen in 3 % + to really make it more difficult , Track condition think about if for the features track condition almost always changes a good bit at any track by the features , and in most cases atleast little more grip, and for sure Drier , So an Aggressive prep like Goat not going to hook up with any tire, since it was Burris 33s Chemical Slide Again, Again since it was a champ the right NEVER prepped 33 would have mostly hooked up , Now for the Heat it could have been the complete opposite end of the spectrum and you were not wiped up near enough, but since they were 33s I highly doubt it .
Hope this helps shed some light and makes a difference going forward.
Good Luck !!
 
Thank you for the advice and when I said wet I ment tacky I worded it wrong sorry. I was thinking chemical slide in the heat but don’t know a lot about prepping with aggressive preps yet but I’m learning. I think your right the main started to dry out some, still not dusty but it had a shiny prep groove. What prep would you recommend in that case, just a bite prep?
 
Thank you for the advice and when I said wet I ment tacky I worded it wrong sorry. I was thinking chemical slide in the heat but don’t know a lot about prepping with aggressive preps yet but I’m learning. I think your right the main started to dry out some, still not dusty but it had a shiny prep groove. What prep would you recommend in that case, just a bite prep?
Hard to say for sure without being there to see it for myself and monitor lap times which helps determine how much more grip track may have , but since it's with a champ good chance a more aggressive hard track might only soften 1 pt or at most 2
 
Ok, my next question. Everyone always says once you use goat on a tire that tire will always be a goat tire. Does this mean if I let the tire dry out a couple weeks after using it that I can't use anything else on that tire but goat from then on? I'm new to the aggresive preps so I don't know alot yet. Say I got to the track and after using goat on my first set, then the track changes so I switch to another set of tires that had been prepped in the past with goat, can I switch to a different prep on those tires to make them work?
 
Ok, my next question. Everyone always says once you use goat on a tire that tire will always be a goat tire. Does this mean if I let the tire dry out a couple weeks after using it that I can't use anything else on that tire but goat from then on? I'm new to the aggresive preps so I don't know alot yet. Say I got to the track and after using goat on my first set, then the track changes so I switch to another set of tires that had been prepped in the past with goat, can I switch to a different prep on those tires to make them work?
Those tires will be fine 95% of the time at Godspeed. If they have a big show the track might get good enough that you won't prep in the feature. I recommend using FBR purple, Murray Purple, or Roll Speed Red in place of straight goat.

Godspeed's MO is to run the track in an let it sit for an hour+ before they put karts on it. With the wind they see there it dries out quick and the track goes away. I'm a bit surprised you had issues with what you tried. Were your tires wet when you hit the track or was the prep absorbed into the tire before you left the grid? I'm guessing your tires were sealed over. If they were sealed over, they wouldn't accept prep and would have had you "on top" of the track and not "in the track".
 
Those tires will be fine 95% of the time at Godspeed. If they have a big show the track might get good enough that you won't prep in the feature. I recommend using FBR purple, Murray Purple, or Roll Speed Red in place of straight goat.

Godspeed's MO is to run the track in an let it sit for an hour+ before they put karts on it. With the wind they see there it dries out quick and the track goes away. I'm a bit surprised you had issues with what you tried. Were your tires wet when you hit the track or was the prep absorbed into the tire before you left the grid? I'm guessing your tires were sealed over. If they were sealed over, they wouldn't accept prep and would have had you "on top" of the track and not "in the track".
I wiped the tires before leaving for the grid, so they were dry before hitting the track. The tires I ran in the main were done the same way, both the heat tires and the set I ran in the main were freshly ground so they shouldn't have been sealed over. I did however wipe acrysol on all 4 tires before hitting them with the Goat Prep, I did so in thinking it would help the tires take the prep better. Could this have caused the problem? Maybe the chemicals didn't react well to each other.
 
I wiped the tires before leaving for the grid, so they were dry before hitting the track. The tires I ran in the main were done the same way, both the heat tires and the set I ran in the main were freshly ground so they shouldn't have been sealed over. I did however wipe acrysol on all 4 tires before hitting them with the Goat Prep, I did so in thinking it would help the tires take the prep better. Could this have caused the problem? Maybe the chemicals didn't react well to each other.
No there was no reaction between acrysol and Goat , Give full details on the set of tires you used and did this to ?
Like Date Code , Profile Cut , roughly how many heat cycles on them , what all preps were wiped on the before , how much , and when ,
 
I wiped the tires before leaving for the grid, so they were dry before hitting the track. The tires I ran in the main were done the same way, both the heat tires and the set I ran in the main were freshly ground so they shouldn't have been sealed over. I did however wipe acrysol on all 4 tires before hitting them with the Goat Prep, I did so in thinking it would help the tires take the prep better. Could this have caused the problem? Maybe the chemicals didn't react well to each other.
I've not spoke with anyone that was there to get their take on the track conditions. I'm not saying what you did was a winning combination but you're generally in the ballpark of what works there. If your last wipe is at the trailer you don't need to use acrysol. Generally speaking you'll want a wet tire when you hit the track. That's why most people wait until the last moment to wipe and set down.

A few comments:
- Goat pee comes from a lot of sources. If you're buying it at the track I'd guess it's been cut down and is not as effective as pure Goat.
- Tires punching 60 were likely too hard. The goat will soften them but I doubt it was enough especially if it's been cut
- R.P. will also want to know how thick your tires were and what air pressure you were on.
- Using acrysol probably hurt you more than it helped you. If you were on freshly resurfaced tires they would accept the prep just fine. You didn't want to drive prep into the tire. You needed something to fire you off so it needed to be on top of the tire.
 
No there was no reaction between acrysol and Goat , Give full details on the set of tires you used and did this to ?
Like Date Code , Profile Cut , roughly how many heat cycles on them , what all preps were wiped on the before , how much , and when ,
The tires I ran in the main were 23 date code with a rounded profile cut with half a dot still showing on all tires. I dropped to 5 1/2 and 6 1/2 on air in the main also. That was the only time they were ran that day but I'm not sure how many cycles on the tires complete as I bought them used. I do know they have been used with Goat for the track I'm running at prior to me getting them. I wiped one coat of goat on all 4 tires before heading to the grid.
 
The tires I ran in the main were 23 date code with a rounded profile cut with half a dot still showing on all tires. I dropped to 5 1/2 and 6 1/2 on air in the main also. That was the only time they were ran that day but I'm not sure how many cycles on the tires complete as I bought them used. I do know they have been used with Goat for the track I'm running at prior to me getting them. I wiped one coat of goat on all 4 tires before heading to the grid.
There's probably some of your issue they were wiped previously with a lot of aggressive before you bought them , That's Why I'll only buy used 33s from like 2 other guy's because you have to know what your buying .
 
Ran my local track yesterday in Sr. Champ Clone on Burris 33’s. Started the day track was wet with a lot of bite, went out with one wipe of Goat before going to the grid and the kart was quick and stick anywhere I put it. I left the kart alone and waited for my heat race, by my heat I noticed the track had developed a prep grove so I once again done the tires the way I had before. First lap into the race the kart spun out, then for the rest of the race it was just trying to hold on as it was all over the track. For the main I added a washer of cross and a fresh set of tires. I dropped a 1/2lb of air all around and hit the tires with Goat before going to the grid. Once again the kart was skatey but I was able to hold onto it so it was a little better. Tires were punching 60 before prepping.
I don't consider my self a "tire guy" and I'm definitely not a prep guru. However, I'm learning this prep game. By no means would I provide input on a topic that I am not certain about.

I'm curious though. Why did you go with goat for hot laps? I know the track was wet and the goat would be a good call for *THAT* event on the track.

One thing I have learned. The track conditions during hot laps normally is very bad and you don't want to make too many decisions based on those conditions and results. The track is going to change in a big way.

I have started selecting my hot lap tires midweek. Then I wipe them with a medium bite prep once or twice mid week and one more the day of the race. (Medium preps like Andy Murray Orange, Donnie Nall Yellow Crush, LS2, Black Bite 2.0) Then during hot laps I try to go out as late as possible during the Hot Lap Session. The track will change during hot laps more than ANY other time through out the event. This gives me a medium wiped up tire on a surface that is AS CLOSE to what I am going to see first time out there. If the track is soft and wet after hot laps you now know you need a more aggressive prep. (Andy Murray Purple, Monster Bite, Nall Wet Track, FTS Black-bite, Krug, Goat).

Remember to target the track conditions you will see later in the night over what you see early. It's going to change.

One last recommendation. When you are tasked with making a tire decision. Make a decision that will teach you something for the next time you come to this same track or see these same conditions. Write the reasons and decisions down and go back and reflect on them.
 
I don't consider my self a "tire guy" and I'm definitely not a prep guru. However, I'm learning this prep game. By no means would I provide input on a topic that I am not certain about.

I'm curious though. Why did you go with goat for hot laps? I know the track was wet and the goat would be a good call for *THAT* event on the track.

One thing I have learned. The track conditions during hot laps normally is very bad and you don't want to make too many decisions based on those conditions and results. The track is going to change in a big way.

I have started selecting my hot lap tires midweek. Then I wipe them with a medium bite prep once or twice mid week and one more the day of the race. (Medium preps like Andy Murray Orange, Donnie Nall Yellow Crush, LS2, Black Bite 2.0) Then during hot laps I try to go out as late as possible during the Hot Lap Session. The track will change during hot laps more than ANY other time through out the event. This gives me a medium wiped up tire on a surface that is AS CLOSE to what I am going to see first time out there. If the track is soft and wet after hot laps you now know you need a more aggressive prep. (Andy Murray Purple, Monster Bite, Nall Wet Track, FTS Black-bite, Krug, Goat).

Remember to target the track conditions you will see later in the night over what you see early. It's going to change.

One last recommendation. When you are tasked with making a tire decision. Make a decision that will teach you something for the next time you come to this same track or see these same conditions. Write the reasons and decisions down and go back and reflect on them.
Thank you for the advice, I will give that a try at my next race. My last race there I feel like I hit pretty close on the tires, I was still wiping aggressive even with the track drying out but I think that is due to my tires being on the hard side to start. I've been playing around with my setup numbers on left side weight trying to get it where the kart feels good. I went out after the races a few weeks ago and the kart felt the best it has yet but 5 laps in it rolled the RR tire off the outside bead. I feel like this may have been a case of overloading the rr in the center of the corner so I'm going to add a little bit more left and go up on air pressure some for my next race and try and free it up some.
 
Thank you for the advice, I will give that a try at my next race. My last race there I feel like I hit pretty close on the tires, I was still wiping aggressive even with the track drying out but I think that is due to my tires being on the hard side to start. I've been playing around with my setup numbers on left side weight trying to get it where the kart feels good. I went out after the races a few weeks ago and the kart felt the best it has yet but 5 laps in it rolled the RR tire off the outside bead. I feel like this may have been a case of overloading the rr in the center of the corner so I'm going to add a little bit more left and go up on air pressure some for my next race and try and free it up some.
Only pointing out to try to HELP .
If I've helped set up say 20 different karts for 20 different drivers , Kids to Adults and in EVERY CASE none of them liked 100 % the way the kart felt , Gotta go by stop watch not feel , Plus at this point you CANNOT just say your going up in air at the next race to FREE the kart up some , you can make chassis adjustments to free the kart up some , But Air is all Track Conditions when you race , Not practice Race then and only then can you decide air with any accuracy , Yes you want to run as much as conditions will allow for Max Roll Speed , But if you miss it by .5 lb you better to be .5 under , not over because If that .5 lb causes kart to slide , Roll Speed " Freeing Kart up " will NEVER over come what the sliding hinders .

Good Luck !!
 
Thank you for the advice, I will give that a try at my next race. My last race there I feel like I hit pretty close on the tires, I was still wiping aggressive even with the track drying out but I think that is due to my tires being on the hard side to start. I've been playing around with my setup numbers on left side weight trying to get it where the kart feels good. I went out after the races a few weeks ago and the kart felt the best it has yet but 5 laps in it rolled the RR tire off the outside bead. I feel like this may have been a case of overloading the rr in the center of the corner so I'm going to add a little bit more left and go up on air pressure some for my next race and try and free it up some.
I'm not saying this is the case for you but want to throw it out there just in case. Most anyone that runs competitively weekly (assuming we're talking about Godspeed) has a decent size inventory of tires. What I see happen with teams that have <10 sets is they kill their tires March - April to run competitively and come May or June their tires have lost speed. Be conscious of how much aggressive you're putting in your tires and how you're cycling these tires. The features are the only races that matter at the pay window.

What brand wheel, how much air, and year tire were you on when the RR rolled off the bead?
 
I'm not saying this is the case for you but want to throw it out there just in case. Most anyone that runs competitively weekly (assuming we're talking about Godspeed) has a decent size inventory of tires. What I see happen with teams that have <10 sets is they kill their tires March - April to run competitively and come May or June their tires have lost speed. Be conscious of how much aggressive you're putting in your tires and how you're cycling these tires. The features are the only races that matter at the pay window.

What brand wheel, how much air, and year tire were you on when the RR rolled off the bead?
The wheels are VanK, 7lb on air and they were 2023 tires. I have been resurfacing the tires after every race weekend and letting them sit 2 weeks before using them again. I think I'm going to switch to wiping my practice tires earlier in the week with a bite prep and lay off the aggressive on them and see how that works out. All of my tires are punching a little over 60 on duro so I felt they were a little on the hard side to start. I also agree about not being able to make air pressure adjustments week to week because of not knowing track conditions, I made that statement because I thought that I could possibly have been too low on air to start as to part of my tire coming off the bead reasoning. I'm new to champs so setup is different to me, but in the kart you can feel a lot of weight transfer to the rights in the corner on my kart. Like I said I'm learning and I appreciate all the input.
 
Changing up the prep routine is a good idea .
My driver did our tires .
They all seemed the same to me . Driver said they weren't . My observation was different. Keeping track of tires is a complicated
Endeavor, what inside ,outside , when , on top of that recognizing each tire .
 
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