Can anyone help with clutching for a snocross sled with the lo 206?

C

cloudmaster_321

Member
I'm struggling with clutching and gearing on this. I know this is primarily a carting forum, but i feel there are a lot of smart people in here that may be able to offer some insight.

I'm currently running a Hilliard Inferno Flame, pucks are leading, two black/two white. Gearing is 18/40.

Our sled is getting left at the line consistently by at least two-three sled lengths after 25'. Top end is also down compared to other sleds. I'm guessing one tooth worth on the rear gear. I do not currently have a mychron installed, so no real data.

Engagement is currently in the neighborhood of 3,200-3,400.

I originally ran 4 white springs, pucks trailing, and was really slow out of the hole. But that was our first race, could have been geared too low. It seemed like 4 white was engaging around 2,800. I don't have data for full lock.

I'm contemplating going back to 4 white, leading, or to 4 black leading. Last race for the season is next weekend. I have a little snow on the ground to do some seat of the pants testing without the mychron tomorrow, but that's it.

Thoughts? Thanks.
 
What front drivers for the clutch do you have? What rear gears? 2.22 gear ratio is really low. Are you hitting the rev limiter on the engine at top speed?
 
Pucks trailing will be a little slower lock up . Is the sled real heavy. ? Like 300# with driver or heavier.
I would try 4 black .
Now leading or trailing , not sure . they are heavy and hard to get moving .
That would put you above the torque peak range .
Theres another gear box going to the track ?
 
Colt sr said:
What front drivers for the clutch do you have? What rear gears? 2.22 gear ratio is really low. Are you hitting the rev limiter on the engine at top speed?
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no, not hitting rev limiter unless airborne off a jump. 18 front gear, 40 rear gear. Rear sprocket is bolted to the drive shaft which has a 4 tooth driver for the track.
 
flattop1 said:
Pucks trailing will be a little slower lock up . Is the sled real heavy. ? Like 300# with driver or heavier.
I would try 4 black .
Now leading or trailing , not sure . they are heavy and hard to get moving .
That would put you above the torque peak range .
Theres another gear box going to the track ?
Click to expand...
The sled weighs 175lbs, kid is 50 lbs. no other gear box other than the driveshaft for the track with a 4 tooth driver.
 
The snow forum I found
Had. 2. 6 as a gear ratio.
That would be 5 teeth on the rear . Clutch can only do so much , if it boggs its not high enough engagement , which must also be balanced against the gear . If you have a gear I'd try that .
Test with a stop watch over a certain distance.
That's a similar weight to a kart , so that's not the issue.
 
flattop1 said:
The snow forum I found
Had. 2. 6 as a gear ratio.
That would be 5 teeth on the rear . Clutch can only do so much , if it boggs its not high enough engagement , which must also be balanced against the gear . If you have a gear I'd try that .
Test with a stop watch over a certain distance.
That's a similar weight to a kart , so that's not the issue.
Click to expand...
If he is being beat on the start wouldn't you drop the front driver as well. I just looked and a 15/40 would put him at 2.66 a 16 tooth driver would put him at 2.5 which is what I would do. I would drop front driver to a 16 and put a 42 rear gear on. Which would put him at 2.62
 
I agree going to the 16 tooth driver, EK gold with #35 chain. I tried the 16 driver with the standard #35, and the chain was getting worn out with tight spots fast. Went back to the 18 driver with gold chain, and it's fine.

Spoke with another carting friend of mine, he strongly encouraged me to go with a Stinger clutch with orange springs. He says the Hilliard Flame is likely slipping too much off the line and going up the steep moguls on the track.

18/40 is the starting point for these sled set ups, 2.6 ratio would not have enough top speed. Low 2's is usually what the fast and more mature kids can handle if they can keep the throttle pinched the hole time. My boy, a young 8 yrs old, is probably not doing that.

The all black sled in that video was a 18/40 gear ratio. Same clutch, but i think he had all black springs.
 
Stinger is definitely a tougher clutch.
Not keeping the throttle pinned can result in the clutch unlocking .
Chain life or race speed its a trade off .
If your not as fast as the others using there setups is not likely the best till your up to that level .
Asking for ideas and not accepting suggestions is counter productive .
 
cloudmaster_321 said:
I agree going to the 16 tooth driver, EK gold with #35 chain. I tried the 16 driver with the standard #35, and the chain was getting worn out with tight spots fast. Went back to the 18 driver with gold chain, and it's fine.

Spoke with another carting friend of mine, he strongly encouraged me to go with a Stinger clutch with orange springs. He says the Hilliard Flame is likely slipping too much off the line and going up the steep moguls on the track.

18/40 is the starting point for these sled set ups, 2.6 ratio would not have enough top speed. Low 2's is usually what the fast and more mature kids can handle if they can keep the throttle pinched the hole time. My boy, a young 8 yrs old, is probably not doing that.

The all black sled in that video was a 18/40 gear ratio. Same clutch, but i think he had all black springs.
Click to expand...
If the kid winning is on the same clutch and an 18/40, then it's not the brand of clutch that's the problem. Just ask your competitor how their clutch is set-up. Worst he can do is lie, right? You don't know until you ask, and you make make a great new friend that can help speed up the learning curve considerably.
Alternating black and white springs should work just fine. I would push the shoes (even though it is slightly harder on chains and gears.)
Taking the clutch apart and doing some basic maintenance on it each week is a must.


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I wonder if his clutch is just flat out over heating. What does the drum look like? What do the shoes look like as well?
 
One of the biggest power robbers on mini sleds is the tracks friction or drag. A few things that free that up is running the least amount of tension possible with out it ratcheting over the drivers. Some will change out to larger diameter drivers witch rotates the track better. I also lightened and made the track flexier by drilling 1" holes out of the flat web portion. That turned it into a sort of a cheese grater and made it turn the 180* turn on booth ends of the tunnel easier.
 
Freezeman said:
One of the biggest power robbers on mini sleds is the tracks friction or drag. A few things that free that up is running the least amount of tension possible with out it ratcheting over the drivers. Some will change out to larger diameter drivers witch rotates the track better. I also lightened and made the track flexier by drilling 1" holes out of the flat web portion. That turned it into a sort of a cheese grater and made it turn the 180* turn on booth ends of the tunnel easier.
Click to expand...
I wondered when you would get involved.
I watched some good sled racing from Minnesota the other day.
 
What's more popular now -- snocross or sled LTO? I'm pretty sure Gilles Villeneuve and his family made their name on snow before they became famous in F1... I always wanted a sled when I was in upstate NY and now that I'm in NC I feel sorry for the people listing them on FB Marketplace down here... maybe I need to open a sandsled park... better get a liquid cooled!!

Also, how do you keep moisture from making the clutches slip?
 
Freezeman said:
One of the biggest power robbers on mini sleds is the tracks friction or drag. A few things that free that up is running the least amount of tension possible with out it ratcheting over the drivers. Some will change out to larger diameter drivers witch rotates the track better. I also lightened and made the track flexier by drilling 1" holes out of the flat web portion. That turned it into a sort of a cheese grater and made it turn the 180* turn on booth ends of the tunnel easier.
Click to expand...
Copy that. I've done everything i can do in that department. The drivers are specific for this class sled.

I did get the stinger clutch yesterday. Looks good, but the drum brake for the Hilliard won't work for it. The band is too big. I ordered a smaller brake band and will see how it looks when i get it tomorrow. The problem i believe i'll have, is the geometry will be off, and the smaller band will not be centered around the drum. I may have to customize the band mount to keep it centered. Time will tell; i may need to go back to the hilliard for the last round of races this weekend.
 
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