Box Stock

Clone or Animal ? Choices, choices, choices

R

Rocket Rob

New member
Starting to race a class, Sr. Champ MIX

I have to have a new engine built but want to know which I would get better preformance out of the clone or animal? I know the animal cost more..... Is it worth it?
If clone do I go BP or pro gas?
 
In MAOS we are going to run a mixed champ class and this is my advice to you from a promoter and racer stand point. I would check on where you plan to run see the rules on what they allow. Then I would compare notes meaning lap times, HP, torque, and entries because if you decide to slap that motor on a flat kart you wont be in a class of 3-5. If you are running champ as you said you were and they give you the option for WKA Pro Gas Animal I would run that as it is the most power and bang for your buck (plus rules aren't changing for the next couple years). There is a silent push for a standardized motor in champs. I think that Pro gas could be it. Clones biggest downfall are the changing of the stock rules. The motors are no longer stock which makes them more or less builder prepared with no stock class nationally anymore at least what I have seen. So potentially the motor I would like to see nationally on the Champ side of things would be the Pro-Gas because of price and speed. So I may have let a cat out of a bag but that is the direction I think would help champs and I would like to see my racers go, will it happen I don't know time will tell. Overall it really depends on the area you are racing in.
 
DynoDon said:
So Pro Gas is WKA ?
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Im not sure if it is Wka, Ikf or what rules, but pro gas is the latest new rule set for animals, where racers can have an animal built to run on gas rather than methanol, and make just as much if not more power than with methanol if i remember correctly. I dont want to give any wrong info, as im not familiar with animals and their rules, but i know Steve Baker of Baker Racing Engines on here is the one who is building the Pro Gas animals, maybe he could shed some more light on that topic for you. I would also agree with the statement in post #2, that for champs, the animal would be the better option if someone is looking to have one engine platform for all of the champs and put everyone on a level playing field.
 
Pro Gas makes less power than alcohol animals. A quick look at the Enduro section on here will shed a LOT of light as to how a pro gas motor compares to an alcohol motor. Steve Baker is a good source of info on here in addition to some of the people that run Pro Gas in Gold Cup where it has flourished.
 
The pro gas animal makes I believe about 6% less power than a alcohol animal but the price is non comparable. If we get a good number of champs in our series this is direction we are headed. Hopefully we can start a trend to keep this class alive and strong. Right now I know of 8 states planning to run with us in 2014.
 
Rocket Rob said:
Starting to race a class, Sr. Champ MIX

I have to have a new engine built but want to know which I would get better preformance out of the clone or animal? I know the animal cost more..... Is it worth it?
If clone do I go BP or pro gas?
Click to expand...
i dont have a clue about rules, etc. but i will offer my opinion on the animal vs clone... mainly an opinion on the animal

im putting together a kart for my wife...

the first motor i put on the kart, was a clone CA model predator 212 (69727) with an isky black mamba cam, 26 lb springs, upgraded jetting, etube, air filter, billet flywheel, billet con rod, 3 stage header, stock head... was in it approx -$400 (including shipping for parts etc), my own labor... ran very nicely

just installed a briggs animal and broke it in with her today... the briggs, stock, added a 3 stage header... i got this for a great deal, less than normal, but normal price is around $545? I have to admit, as i love the clone motors... the briggs seems to perform slightly better/smoother and was out of the box. no changing rods, flywheels, jetting, cam, etc.

in my opinion, i like the animal better on her kart...
 
NOT ENOUGH INFO to compare anything YET...
Whats the perposed engine as per briggs and Clone..
Weight handicaps,, restrictor plates,, fuel etc must be known..
You see the answers you got were opinions not answers
 
This is from Steve Baker in another thread about Pro-gas Animals compared to a Wka spec clone and Wka spec alky Animal.

The Animal Pro Gas Engine based on dyno testing is 23% more HP than the clone and 6% less than a fully blue printed WKA #704 Alky Animal engine. Engine runs on standard pump gasoline at 7400 to 7700 on dirt oval and 7800 to 8200 on sprint road course tracks.
 
Just to prove my point..
Again comparing apples to oranges here.. Atleast be fair in your comparisons..
The clone class you speak of is somewhat equal in power to a LO206.. Some tracks the 206 has an advantage and some tracks the clone has it..
The Pro Gas is more inline with the Builders Prepared,, the clone really needs a equal bore carb to be right there with the Pro Gas Animal.. BUT its not far off..

And yes we build the Briggs too... Sent 2 Pro Gas engines to Daytona and one ran way out front On the Super Speedway,, the driver lost his road map...lol
Second one ran dirt,, 1st day ran 5th or 6th and on the big money day was right on the leader tryingto pass and wheel hopped the leader and finished 10th... Thats the kind of luck we have...:)
 
Dover Power said:
Just to prove my point..
Again comparing apples to oranges here.. Atleast be fair in your comparisons..
The clone class you speak of is somewhat equal in power to a LO206.. Some tracks the 206 has an advantage and some tracks the clone has it..
The Pro Gas is more inline with the Builders Prepared,, the clone really needs a equal bore carb to be right there with the Pro Gas Animal.. BUT its not far off..

And yes we build the Briggs too... Sent 2 Pro Gas engines to Daytona and one ran way out front On the Super Speedway,, the driver lost his road map...lol
Second one ran dirt,, 1st day ran 5th or 6th and on the big money day was right on the leader tryingto pass and wheel hopped the leader and finished 10th... Thats the kind of luck we have...:)
Click to expand...
well slap a PZ22 on one and see what happens. are you allowed to run a billet rod and flat top piston on the clone? what camshaft do they run or is it comprable to the animal cam. I'd think that the clone would be at a disadvantage with the animal if all things aren't equal. how do the prices compare to each build?
 
OLE_SHU said:
well slap a PZ22 on one and see what happens. are you allowed to run a billet rod and flat top piston on the clone? what camshaft do they run or is it comprable to the animal cam. I'd think that the clone would be at a disadvantage with the animal if all things aren't equal. how do the prices compare to each build?
Click to expand...

Flat top Piston,, Mod 2 cam (Less Lift) ARC Rod,, Animal Carb,, Clone engine,,PVL FW all equals $325 to $350..... And your point is? The carb set me back MORE than any other part in my list... :)
 
With no limits, i would guess it is the animal, but i have no experience to back that up, just a guess?
 
A lot of engine builders are getting on board and building the WKA #705 Animal Pro Gas engine. The below list is some of the ones that I know of and I am sure I missed a few, sorry. Engine was designed and specs developed to be a lower cost animal to build but still maintain a good racey fast engine for the racers. Power is very close to the Alky Animal, 6% less peak power. The engine to engine power is the closest I have seen yet and this is due to the spec style of rules and the consistency from the Briggs engine components.

A few of the positive attributes of the Animal Pro Gas are, a spec ring package that prevents oil blow bye and fuel in oil, spec camshaft for power parity and valve springs that last a full racing season, billet rod for long durability, carb specs for a 3 minute build time and runs on standard pump gas.

We at Bakers build the Clone engines, but also offer the Animal Pro Gas. Some racers like the Clone others like the Animal, its all a choice for various reasons!

Animal Pro Gas Green restrictor plate - Sportsman ages 7 to 12
Animal Pro Gas Orange restrictor plate - Junior ages 12 to 15

Animal Pro Gas price ranges from most engine builder,s is $850.00 to $995.00.


Basic RPM levels
Oval racing - 7400 to 7700
Sprint racing - 7800 to 8200

Sorry about being on the clone page with all the Animal stuff, but it begged a lot of comments after ready the above posts!

Great job Jerry Dover on your Animal Pro Gas Daytona racer in the dirt race, I watched that race and he was very fast!


Dover Power
Miller Racing Engines
Moon Power
Faster Motors
Carlson Racing Engines
CKI
JRE
Shue Power
PEC
Turner Racing Engines
Kart City Performance
GT Machine
Roberts Kart Shop
Baker Racing Engines

Steve
 
Thats sounds impressive Steve. Should I assume that is 'motor' only? What does that make in HP? I am not familiar w/ 'Animal's', however....I do get a chance too challenge W/F's occasionally w/ my Clones being in the 16-18hp / $1000 T/K range.
 
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