Track Tac

Do you soften the axle for more grip?

paulkish

paulkish

old fart
I think for everything depending on circumstances any adjustment can give opposite on track results. This is an in general what would you expect question.

Will you in general expect more grip when going to a softer axle?
 
Softer axle is less grip to a point and then will have the opposite effect. Karts that are very soft tubing/design are the opposite. I am referring to sprint racing. It's gebe rally recognized in oval racing that a thin wall axle reduces grip. Some karts recommend the .190 wall for dirt and .120 wall for asphalt.
 
Triton and thin wall axle

What is everyone's feedback on using a thinwall axle on a a Triton running on asphalt street races? James from PRC do you have any input regarding thinwall axle use?
 
Dont know about on asphalt or sprint but on dirt there are better ways to get more grip than changing the axle....i would start with tires but the setup can do it also, I'm sure you know
 
My main concern would be with the less stiffer axle, the more those wheels move around, the less positive control you'll have on which direction the kart is going to go. Mainly while breaking, but in the turns, there is bound to be rough sections, and every time you hit one, that wheels going to be going every which way, proportionally, with the softer axle. I can't see how that would help the handling. I know when we went to the 1 1/8 inch axle from the 1 inch axle, I felt much more in control. Of course there is a much bigger difference in stiffness when you go up in diameter versus thicker wall.
 
Al, it was explained to me on the lefty righty kart site, that axle stiffness controls the "rate" at which you are able to unload the inside rear.

It made perfect sense to me and allowed me to bring in and include, grip in the equation. Those two things net out, to creating the ability to work tire grip and axle stiffness together, to control inside rear unloading.

Isn't being fast sprint racing, all about when and how you lift, and then engage the inside rear?
 
paulkish said:
Isn't being fast sprint racing, all about when and how you lift, and then engage the inside rear?
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I don't know about when and how, all I know is, to turn, you have to get that inside tire off the ground. The longer you can keep it off the ground, the faster you get out of the turn.
 
Makes you want to think about the Titanium Axle, 6 lbs. lighter and stronger with just a little flex in it.......only about 900.00
..............:)..............
 
alvin l nunley said:
Are you all familiar with the term, "Occam's razor"?
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I'll bite (after a quick Wikipedia session to make sure I don't say too many stupid things). Are you saying that stiffer axle has less variables? Isn't it just changing one of the variables stiffer (its still a variable). If you prescribed to this method, wouldn't you just leave everything the same and only change one thing... (oh, goodness, did I just describe Dirt guys only messing with tires???). I am going to stop now before I get my foot any further in my mouth.

Al, did I miss the point of your reference?
 
alvin l nunley said:
I don't know about when and how, all I know is, to turn, you have to get that inside tire off the ground. The longer you can keep it off the ground, the faster you get out of the turn.
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Thanks for the insight, I think it's a very reasonable way of looking at sprint racing turns.

... awwwww but I just thought of a butt on it. It's been 4+ years ago now that I saw a briggs or clone junior kart setup to maximize use of the inside rear. It was the fastest junior kart at the sprint track. I think Al even a sprint kart if used to include inside rear contact, can be faster then a sprint kart setup to minimize inside rear contact.

If your slowing down anyway going into the turn, does it really matter if your on only the ourside rear?

And during mid turn prior to acceleration, wouldn't it be faster to split grip duties as much as you can with the inside tire, then to maximize slip angle grinding speed, being only on the outside rear?

I see your theory of being just on the outside rear, letting the fronts turn and put power to just the outside rear, being quick. But won't only being on the outside rear in a turn, only be the fastest in a turn at the limit of the grip capability of the outside rear? At any speed less then the maximum speed the outside rear can hold the back in, I think splitting duty between both tires will be faster.

Here's another arguement in the form of a question. Which do you think would be faster in a turn, a kart with a high grip outside rear, only on the outside rear in a turn or a kart with a outside rear of lesser grip and to also include some use of the inside rear to hold the back in?

My thoughts are it's almost always going to be potentially faster to split slip angle duties between two tires, then using only one.

At one time Al we did have the ultimate kart for minimizing inside rear use and it was fast. For awhile wide track coyote's had a problem with developing a crack in the weld, under the joint between the side rails and the chassis part which mounted the spindles. With the crack I would watch the inside rear, immediatly lift up not just off the track, but inches off the track, yet the other three tires remained firmly planted. My son liked the way it drove and it was fast, but we fixed the weld. I often think about putting that 'feature' into the front end of a kart, to make it easy to unload the inside rear.
 
"I would watch the inside rear,immediatly lift up not just off the track,but inches off the track"

If I can get both inside tires to lift of the track, I know I'm hooked up and had better start leaning to the inside. Lol....
 
paulkish said:
If your slowing down anyway going into the turn, does it really matter if your on only the ourside rear?
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You never saw me slowing down going into the corner, (unless I was just trying to get by someone) so I think this statement is not right! I think some people refer to that as trail breaking. Not sure. But it any case, it's not the fast way around the track.

I must have a good memory, because I can remember the exact corner, the exact manner, and the big smile on my face, when I learned how to turn. You go into a corner perfectly straight, you test yourself to see how far you can go, (I can remember, very vividly thinking, at almost every turn, have I gone too far) when you're going slow enough to turn you let off the break and start your turn. At the proper moment in the turn, you get back on the gas and complete your turn. If, coming out of the turn, it looks like you might drop a wheel off the edge of the track, you touch the brakes, never let off the gas. Much better to keep that engine at peak temp. Letting off the gas will drop the temple a little and that means less power. I don't remember when I started doing that, it's something I did without thinking about it.
 
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