Track Tac

Front Grip

The only way to raise or lower the spindles is to put bigger or smaller tires on. If you lower the frame in the front, I would think you would be decreasing the caster angle, not increasing it. But in any case, I would think, the change would be insignificant. You might be lowering the role centre, not by much, but some.
 
If you raise the spindle then you are lowering the frame. Some people call this adding rake to the kart. I like to think of the frame as a balance beam. Lower the front of the frame and you have added more weight to that side of the balance beam. In doing so you should see slightly more nose weight. More nose weight should then equate to more front bite.
 
Al with the newer karts, you can move washers on the spindles to raise or lower them and make front end changes, chassis have came a long way and are fully adjustable.
 
Al,
We are talking about raising the spindles relative to the frame. Forget about tires and sitting on the ground for a minute while you think about the adjustment. This lowers the frame.
 
When you travel to country which does not speak the same language you speak, what should you do, teach all in the other country your language or learn the language of others?

If you choose to act as an invader and force your language on others, the result is resistance and chaos. If you choose out of courtesy to learn the language of everyone else you converse with uses, you show understanding and that you are willing to work with others.
 
If you think about it, raising the spindles and lowering the frame is going to put more weight on the front, giving you a little more front grip
 
W5R said:
If you think about it, raising the spindles and lowering the frame is going to put more weight on the front, giving you a little more front grip
Click to expand...
I have been thinking about this very thing. And I'm wondering, has anybody ever tried this on the scales that can tell us exactly how much weight we increase the front by lowering the frame? One washer... Two washer... Etc. etc.
 
It can also effect the aerodynamics, less air under the nose can help a push and changing the angle of the nose angle of attack among other things. Areo pushes are common on fast tracks.
 
paulkish said:
When you travel to country which does not speak the same language you speak, what should you do, teach all in the other country your language or learn the language of others?

If you choose to act as an invader and force your language on others, the result is resistance and chaos. If you choose out of courtesy to learn the language of everyone else you converse with uses, you show understanding and that you are willing to work with others.
Click to expand...

Where's the Like button !!
 
On my Margay sprint kart I can pick up 1-2% by moving a washer from the top of the spindle to the bottom, but my washers are about an 1/8" think.
 
sundog said:
Why does lowering the frame in the front (raise spindles) give you more front grip?
Click to expand...

Does it always give you more grip?

There are two crosses I think about.

One is the normal cross between the RF and LR. The cross numbers posted on here are what the RF and LR weight in at statically, sitting on scales.

Under power out on the track your chassis will work for you to move weight around, mechanically and dynamically because g forces produced in turns. One way your chassis works dynamically on the track is to sort of rock or pivot across, what I consider to be a second cross. IMHO the second cross comes into play while you use your chassis to race.

The second cross I consider is not a weight out, but mechanical chassis movement and dynamic weight transfer across a line defined between the mounting point of the LF spindle and the RR tire contact patch.

IMHO, your operating chassis can and most times should operate or revolve top towards the RF, over this "cross" or over that line. If your chassis can revolve top towards the RF, you can mechanically move weight towards the RF. If there's enough grip at the RF tire when you do it, then the RF tire turns for you.

If you raise up the spindle you increased the distance the RF can go down in a turn, if it's made to go down.

If and only if you are able to rotate parts and weight from the LR corner, up around and over the "cross" line I think about, can put more real and dynamic weight to the RF. If your RF has grip to carry the additional weight; if you need it there will be more turning power at the RF, if you don't need more turning power, making the chassis work more will eat hp.

If you raise the spindle, your chassis is able to operate; and your RF can't carry the additional weight then you'll push. You can have enough grip at each end of the other "cross" i'm thinking about, which is at the LF and RR, to make the chassis operate moving weight to and towards the RF; but if the RF can't hold the weight, the LF probably won't be able to hold either and you'll push.
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So raising the spindle up sets up the possibility to get more weight on the RF. If the rest of the chassis is setup to send it there and you don't over work the RF, front grip increases.

And as someone already pointed out, it can help get more air down force to the front, increasing grip.

It also changes how weight is projected towards the RF tire contact patch, by increasing how weight is spread across the tire surface from the inside outward, assuming your not already using the whole surface of the tire.

That's all I see, while looking at changes in the picture, I can see and manipulate in my mind. ... :)

edit: Just read through what I wrote and I see another possibility. If you raise up the RF spindle and your chassis can't operate, you will loose grip out on the track at the RF because you raised it up off the track.
 
I really hate to weigh in on this but since I just finished scaling our kart I'm gonna try.
IF I lower my frame on the RF, it means I took washers off the top and put them on the bottom at the spindle. The spindle moves up, frame moves down. This lowers the weight on that wheel and gives it less grip not more. Weight moves to the wheel/frame corner that is highest relative to the level surface (I'm making my adjustments on a leveled set of scales.) So in my RF example, the frame is now lower relative to level and carries less weight.
Here are the #'s for a 1 washer move from bottom to top of spindle while I was scaling (which is the opposite of my first comment.)
My #'s
LF 50.5 RF 82.5
LR 98.4 RR 43.6
Total 275# moved a washer from bottom to top
LF 48.3 RF 84.9
LR 99.8 RR 42
My point being - lowering the frame and raising the spindle shouldn't give more grip because it should decrease weight at that wheel.
Is everyone talking apples and apples and I'm just missing terminology ?
 
This is your 1st set of numbers
Total 275
Front 48.36 %
Left 54.15 %
Cross 65.78 %

Left Front % 18.36%
Left Front lbs 50.5

Right Front % 30.00%
Right Front lbs 82.5

Left Rear % 35.79%
Left Rear lbs 98.41

Right Rear % 15.85%
Right Rear lbs 43.6

Front Cross lbs 31.99 Difference Right to Left
Front Cross % 38.78%

Rear Cross lbs (54.81) Difference Left To Right
Rear Cross % -125.71%

This is your 2nd set of numbers
Total 275
Front 48.44 %
Left 53.85 %
Cross 67.16 %

Left Front % 17.56%
Left Front lbs 48.3

Right Front % 30.87%
Right Front lbs 84.9

Left Rear % 36.28%
Left Rear lbs 99.78

Right Rear % 15.27%
Right Rear lbs 42

Front Cross lbs 36.60 Difference Right to Left
Front Cross % 43.10%

Rear Cross lbs (57.77) Difference Left To Right
Rear Cross % -137.51%
 
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