Hilliard Clutch Questions...

xChristine7714

xChristine7714

Member
Hey, so I just got a new Hilliard clutch for my 206 kart, and I have a couple "just making sure" questions.

For one, once you have the clutch on, is it normal to have this gap between the edges of the clutch and the crankshaft (yes it's pushed all the way on)? Or, should they be flush against one-another?? I noticed this with my old clutch, too and there were no issues that I know of. But, I don't know if it's supposed to be this way.
1680972880586.png

Also... is it normal for my new bearing thing to have a missing roller-pin thingy (pictured below)? I'm assuming it isn't, so I just put the bearing thing from the old clutch on the new clutch. It seems to still be in proper working order, so it should be ok. I looked all around thinking it fell out of its housing, but I think it actually came this way! Is this a normal thing? Looks mildly concerning.
1680973048948.png

Thanks,
Christine!
 
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Not normal for a pin to be missing.
The gap needs filed with generally a washer typically 1/4 inch with fit the 5/16ths bolt or drill it out . Also machine washers will work as they have smaller outside diameter.
You Have the radius washer on the inside ?
A 206 expert will confirm but I believe you want the clutch tight so as not to have end float .
Some fileing or adjusting washer thickness maybe required .
 
As Flattop said, the roller missing is not normal. Don't use it, and as long as the old one has been lubed and isn't discolored or shows physical signs of wear, it should be fine to reuse it.

Most clutch bolts come with two washers. One larger OD, and one smaller OD (outer diameter). In your case, If the clutch is spaced properly when installed, just put the smaller washer inside the end of the clutch, the bigger OD washer will keep the clutch from coming off. IF it were the other way around, you would use the smaller washer on the outside, the bigger OD washer against the shaft.
 
is this how you have always ran your clutch? When I ran a 206 we had the clutch mounted with the driver on the block side or inboard.
 
Gab507 said:
On the 206 you want the clutch to overhang the end of the crank. This is even called out in the Hilliard instructions regarding the 206.
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Question: is there any concerns about the washer flexing/bending allowing the bolt to loosen . Resulting in a dnf .
 
No I have never seen that problem but I do cut the chamfered clutch spacer down so the overhang is around 0.020-0.050. I'm actually more concerned (maybe I shouldn't be) about damaging the bearing race causing it to bulge if customers are using an impact. Bulging that race was a real problem when the bronze bushing was used.
 
Colt sr said:
is this how you have always ran your clutch? When I ran a 206 we had the clutch mounted with the driver on the block side or inboard.
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I do run the clutch outboard. That's how it was mounted when I bought the kart, and as I learn about it I try to keep things as the last owner had it set up. I've never tried to mount in inboard, but I imagine it wouldn't line up with the gear correctly if I did.

ABR #69 said:
Most clutch bolts come with two washers. One larger OD, and one smaller OD (outer diameter). In your case, If the clutch is spaced properly when installed, just put the smaller washer inside the end of the clutch, the bigger OD washer will keep the clutch from coming off. IF it were the other way around, you would use the smaller washer on the outside, the bigger OD washer against the shaft.
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I actually pulled the clutch off today and stuck the smaller washer inside that gap lol. It did fill the gap, but after reading what Gab said, I might just let it overhang and mount it as per the instructions. Briggs and Hilliard musta built this stuff this way for a reason [shrug]. idk about filing down the chamfered washer tho... that sounds like something I'd probably screw up.

Thanks everyone for your help!
 
You shouldn't have to file anything. I ran a Hillard on my 206 and just put the small washer inside and big washer on the outside and ran it that way for years.
 
Yes, it should overhand "slightly." You likely don't need the radius washer if you are running the clutch outboard (as you are.) The newer Hillards all have a radius machined into the backside of the drive hub. Removing the radius washer would move the clutch in closer to the sidecover - be certain that it doesn't make contact with the chainguard bolt heads. For that reason alone, you may need to continue to run that radius washer as a spacer on the crank.
I generally end up using a 5/16" lock washer to take up some of the "overhang" space. This will prevent a thin outside washer from crushing down as much when tightening. You can make a shim exactly the right length if you choose - that would be cool and all, but overkill for what we're doing here.

No, the needle bearing missing is not good - they fit very loose in these bearing cases though and it's not uncommon at all to find them floating around in the packaging.


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🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
34 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
You want the drum (not the clutch) to be able to move a bit on the crankshaft to help with chain alignment during operation. I run the thick chamfered spacer, thin washer, clutch, big silver spacer, grease guard, and then the drum. I think Hilliard’s instructions call for another thin washer either after the big silver spacer or the grease guard but I don’t use it and have never had an issue. Leaving that off does reduce the overhang a bit. The 1/8” thick (or thereabouts) clutch bolt washer works perfectly fine if you don’t go nuts with the impact gun.
 
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Digitalfiend said:
You want the clutch to be able to move a bit on the crankshaft to help with chain alignment during operation. I run the thick chamfered spacer, thin washer, clutch, big silver spacer, grease guard, and then the drum. I think Hilliard’s instructions call for another thin washer either after the big silver spacer or the grease guard but I don’t use it and have never had an issue. Leaving that off does reduce the overhang a bit. The 1/8” thick (or thereabouts) clutch bolt washer works perfectly fine if you don’t go nuts with the impact gun.
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On a Hillard with a built in key there should be NO END PLAY. the manufacturer claims this will prevent shearing the key.
 
J'-remy said:
On a Hillard with a built in key there should be NO END PLAY. the manufacturer claims this will prevent shearing the key.
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Should never shear that built in key with the Hilliard, but it also prevents wearing the keyway in the crankshaft. There should be enough endplay in the clutch drum already for any chain alignment issues. The Hilliard clutch drive hub should have no endplay on the LO206 cranks.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
34 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Only thing I will add to the above is that while you can eliminate the thin washer)shim after the grease guard and before the bearing race, it's not a good idea. That washer is there to make sure the race doesn't grind into the guard. Sorta of a backer to prevent damage to the guard.
 
xChristine7714 said:
I do run the clutch outboard. That's how it was mounted when I bought the kart, and as I learn about it I try to keep things as the last owner had it set up. I've never tried to mount in inboard, but I imagine it wouldn't line up with the gear correctly if I did.


I actually pulled the clutch off today and stuck the smaller washer inside that gap lol. It did fill the gap, but after reading what Gab said, I might just let it overhang and mount it as per the instructions. Briggs and Hilliard musta built this stuff this way for a reason [shrug]. idk about filing down the chamfered washer tho... that sounds like something I'd probably screw up.

Thanks everyone for your help!
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You ever think the reason the last owner sold you his stuff is because he couldnt get it right? Damn near ever aspect of a kart is "adjustable" for a rsason. That reason being not everyone is the same. Except for the way their clutches are mounted. INBOARD Only. Not trying to be a p**ck and i undersrand you are new to this sport amd this forum so ill let you in on 2 things. 1 showing up at the track with an outboard mounted clutch is equal to showing up to play basketball in flip flops. 2 and most important, the fine folks on this forum WILL NOT mislead you intentionally. That said if you are to the point of asking for information or guidance then obviously you are unsure of what you are doing... so follow my lead. You ask, they answer, you apply what they shown, you go faster. Guys here will not pick you apart or be cocky unless you ask for it. So if you happen to read a reply and it seems to be offensive, re read it again until its not. Lastly understand just how lucky you are to have learned about the existence of this great forum. For you have found the largest wealth of free knowledge and that is just in the archives. On top of all that, you also get for free , the opportunity to ask specific questions your personal karting issues that will be answered by some of the top kart guys in the NATION. For free. Take advantage of Bobs friend. But do so repectfully. BTW This just reminded me.. Thanks Mr. Bob Evans for all that you do. You are a Living Legend in my book.
 
J'-remy said:
On a Hillard with a built in key there should be NO END PLAY. the manufacturer claims this will prevent shearing the key.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the drum+driver. The clutch itself is locked on the crankshaft and there is no play whatsoever once you tighten the clutch bolt because it presses against the race which overhangs the crankshaft a bit; i.e. no play on the crankshaft. The drum on the other hand, which sits on the bearing, will move 1-2mm. Once the clutch engages with the drum, the drum can't move anyhow. At least that's how I was taught to run the Hilliard clutch and have had zero issues in the past 3 years running it this way.
 
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