How would you prep for a extreme dry slick sealed track?

dirtyones11

dirtyones11

Member
So its a burris 33s small track. Its prepped a few hours before start time. Watered, trucks roll it in, then right before hot laps they drive a big roller on it. The most grip it has is in hot laps, early heats when there is some moisture and tackiness in the track. It eventually blows off and becomes dry slick, sealed with little bite. Its like this every week. You cant be wet on the grid.. how would you prepare your burris for this track?
 
For the dry slick I'd want to have a very smooth finish on my tire. You don't want to pick up / build up dirt in the tires. Have you tried a current year tire with a good amount of rubber without prep in it for the feature race? I'd suspect a few rounds of tire wash or degreaser at the track or a few rounds of LS1 throughout the week would be an option.

Are the guys out front wet at the grid for the feature? If yes, do you know what they're wiping?
 
Yes were always on newer thicker rubber. Duro about 45. Have not tried going out without prep for feature. Usually go out early on hotlaps without prep since the track is got grip. Then a 75%Ts1/25%Ts2 mix in heats But as the day goes on it looses grip. Never builds bite. Looks shiny/slick.. You cant go up wet. Track doesnt allow it. But people try and get by sometimes. Usually striking goat i think. But features is when the mix isnt biting
 
XXX#40 said:
Load a set all week with a bite only prep
Use the same prep at the track, go to grid with a dry tire.
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^ this right here.
Our Black Bite 2.0 does just that, (more coats - more bite,) and it requires being dry on the grid to work properly. Adds bite but does not soften.
I'd suggest starting with 7 or 8 coats early in the week if the track is really that slick. Apply another coat with enough time to dry before going to the grid each time. Unlike using harsh preps, you can re-use the same set of tires all night with our preps (and not lose speed.)
Low (even up psi) and high crown cut tires will help too.
If it's ridiculously slick, try raising the seat 1" to help nail the right side tires.

Give us a call at the shop or message me here if you have questions specific to our prep line, I'd be glad to help you.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
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35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
dirtyones11 said:
Yes were always on newer thicker rubber. Duro about 45. Have not tried going out without prep for feature. Usually go out early on hotlaps without prep since the track is got grip. Then a 75%Ts1/25%Ts2 mix in heats But as the day goes on it looses grip. Never builds bite. Looks shiny/slick.. You cant go up wet. Track doesnt allow it. But people try and get by sometimes. Usually striking goat i think. But features is when the mix isnt biting
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How competitive are you with your prep strategy vs what you think other racers are doing?

I suspect the guys on goat are fast for a few laps and start falling off. If you load up with a bite prep, you'll have to figure out how many wipes you want; more isn't always better, your laps time should be more consistent. A degreaser or tire wash will probably get faster throughout the race until it plateau's. You might have a different strategy based on where you start the race and how passing occurs. Being a small track I'm guessing they're some aggressive passes being made.
 
So its my sons jr2 class. A couple of the kids pay to have there tires done by a local racer who does them. They are usually up front as well as us too. It is a small track so it does get aggressive out there. One of the dads said they were on like 2 psi.. we usually run like 3 and 4. Was thinking my tires werent soft enough as well. Would usually end up sliding up high coming out of the corners during features. Track guy usually comes out with the big roller on the track again right before features start.
 
Are you rerunning tires or fresh sets every time you hit the track?
What do you think is the cause of the slide? Too much heat, prep slide, track conditions, etc?
Brian makes some good points on the cut of your tire (you want round) and COG. How much lead are you hanging and how confident are you on placement to get good transfer?
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
^ this right here.
Our Black Bite 2.0 does just that, (more coats - more bite,) and it requires being dry on the grid to work properly. Adds bite but does not soften.
I'd suggest starting with 7 or 8 coats early in the week if the track is really that slick. Apply another coat with enough time to dry before going to the grid each time. Unlike using harsh preps, you can re-use the same set of tires all night with our preps (and not lose speed.)
Low (even up psi) and high crown cut tires will help too.
If it's ridiculously slick, try raising the seat 1" to help nail the right side tires.

Give us a call at the shop or message me here if you have questions specific to our prep line, I'd be glad to help you.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...
Reverse spilt can be your friend
 
dirtyones11 said:
So its my sons jr2 class. A couple of the kids pay to have there tires done by a local racer who does them. They are usually up front as well as us too. It is a small track so it does get aggressive out there. One of the dads said they were on like 2 psi.. we usually run like 3 and 4. Was thinking my tires werent soft enough as well. Would usually end up sliding up high coming out of the corners during features. Track guy usually comes out with the big roller on the track again right before features start.
Click to expand...
Have you tried going up in air? What were the results? 3/4 seems low for a jr class on 33s.
 
dirtyones11 said:
I havnt. Seems like i run on the higher side compared to others. If the track had any bite i might consider it.
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An adjustment of air can change the area of contact patch of the tire to the track. It can also help roll speed and the push you have coming out of the corner. Watch your driver closely when in the corners that push could also be your driver is diving into the corner too soon which pinches the kart in center and causes a push coming out.
 
Burris Racer said:
Are you rerunning tires or fresh sets every time you hit the track?
What do you think is the cause of the slide? Too much heat, prep slide, track conditions, etc?
Brian makes some good points on the cut of your tire (you want round) and COG. How much lead are you hanging and how confident are you on placement to get good transfer?
Click to expand...
Running fresh new tires for heats and features. I think its mostly track conditions as well as prep slide.. for feature sets i used andy murray purple to get duro down to about 48-50 then would strike goat. Tires are usually good in early heats when not to many races have made laps on the surface. By the time we get to features track just slicks off and im out to lunch.
 
XXX#40 said:
Load a set all week with a bite only prep
Use the same prep at the track, go to grid with a dry tire.
Click to expand...
If the vision of the track I get based on your description is accurate, and indeed it's dry slick BUT sealed over NOT chunking out open surface real dusty rolling dirt across surface,
Your answer is above EXCEPTION BITE only prep won't cut it , and you'll most likely be better with a 6 month old to 1 yr old tire, you need a more Aggressive prep LS 4 is the best prep I've every tried for the condition, and I've tried a bunch of them Including Andy Murry purple, I'm thinking what I'm visualizing is correct especially because of the fact there sealing it over with a big steel drum roller .
Plus Stop running a 1 lb split , Even up at most and 3 to 4 lb of air is NOT to low, as far as just air once you have a set of tires prepared with enough and the right prep first time our try 3 lb all 4 tires , as mentioned above don't be afraid to try reverse air split where lefts are 1/2 lb more than the rights.
If it's not what I visualize and it's racing real dirty then try brand New set NEVER wiped with any prep first , even up air 3 lb all 4 tires first , if they work get yourself a second set and rotate them as far as when you race them, After ever run refinish them right before your going to use them again and spray with Simple Green or SD 20 only, an if they never fire off then wipe BITE only at home only and a good bit of it , NEVER wipe at the track under those conditions ( ANY PREP ) don't care what they call it High Bite , Hot Lap, Goat pee, Super Grip , Creo , Monster Grip , Fast Track , Liquid Speed, Crush( pink, red, yellow, green, purple ) , wipe at home only and at least 2 days out.
And yes you want ROUND Cuts, with a SMOOTH , did I say SMOOTH finish 300 grit paper or liner to finish.

Good Luck !!
 
dirtyones11 said:
Running fresh new tires for heats and features. I think its mostly track conditions as well as prep slide.. for feature sets i used andy murray purple to get duro down to about 48-50 then would strike goat. Tires are usually good in early heats when not to many races have made laps on the surface. By the time we get to features track just slicks off and im out to lunch.
Click to expand...
That's because there's still a little moisture present, thus you'll be ok wiping at the track even though tires are dry when you go up. And forget about chasing a duro number , figure out what method works that's it, only reason to duro is to identify the softest set especially if 4 points or more softer .
 
So dont soften any new sets to bring duro down? I will buy like 4 sets of this years 33s. I also have 3 sets of 23s from last year that were only wiped with a couple coats of purple to get duro down. They only have maybe 20 laps on them.
racing promotor said:
That's because there's still a little moisture present, thus you'll be ok wiping at the track even though tires are dry when you go up. And forget about chasing a duro number , figure out what method works that's it, only reason to duro is to identify the softest set especially if 4 points or more softer .
Click to expand...
 
dirtyones11 said:
So dont soften any new sets to bring duro down? I will buy like 4 sets of this years 33s. I also have 3 sets of 23s from last year that were only wiped with a couple coats of purple to get duro down. They only have maybe 20 laps on them.
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Doesn't matter a Burris 33 is the most chemical sensitive tire there is , once wiped always wiped and If a Never wiped tire will go the prep will hold the tire back from making max potential speed, even If you don't get the dreaded chemical slide.
That's correct don't soften any new set's until you prove if new fresh set will fire off NEVER prepped , and sounds like they won't go for the heat race when little moisture is still there , but for feature when no moisture left that's when they may go, with better chance of them going If race surface is racing more dirty than I vision based on you saying Sealed over , shiny looking , and knowing they use a big steel drum roller on it,
If indeed it is cleaner racing but sealed over dry slick what I explained above will be best bet.
Now if you wish to wipe 1 set new for heat race only while some moisture there, That's a different story if you choose to just gotta know when to get off them.
 
racing promotor said:
Doesn't matter a Burris 33 is the most chemical sensitive tire there is , once wiped always wiped and If a Never wiped tire will go the prep will hold the tire back from making max potential speed, even If you don't get the dreaded chemical slide.
That's correct don't soften any new set's until you prove if new fresh set will fire off NEVER prepped , and sounds like they won't go for the heat race when little moisture is still there , but for feature when no moisture left that's when they may go, with better chance of them going If race surface is racing more dirty than I vision based on you saying Sealed over , shiny looking , and knowing they use a big steel drum roller on it,
If indeed it is cleaner racing but sealed over dry slick what I explained above will be best bet.
Now if you wish to wipe 1 set new for heat race only while some moisture there, That's a different story if you choose to just gotta know when to get off them.
Click to expand...
Since the op is from upstate NY. Maybe if they let us know what track it is there is more than likely someone on here that runs that particular track that could help shed some light on the situation.
 
dirtyones11 said:
Running fresh new tires for heats and features. I think its mostly track conditions as well as prep slide.. for feature sets i used andy murray purple to get duro down to about 48-50 then would strike goat. Tires are usually good in early heats when not to many races have made laps on the surface. By the time we get to features track just slicks off and im out to lunch.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you can prep aggressive early but you can't do that all night. I would reach out to Josh at Slack. He's probably familiar with the track your running and could provide some insight on using the LS / TS prep line for those conditions.
 
Colt sr said:
Since the op is from upstate NY. Maybe if they let us know what track it is there is more than likely someone on here that runs that particular track that could help shed some light on the situation.
Click to expand...
Didn't see that If he's racing only in New York sounds like weedsport , If so you need a new set every run and Aggressive prep to compete,
which is why guy's have stopped going , it's a shame because the track could get pretty good if they would just stop using that big roller.
 
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