Hybrid Clutch on the 450, Why?

D

DonAmig

New member
Can someone tell me why a lot of the CR450s (Northern West Coast) are running a hybrid Buller/Vortex clutch.
I'm building a new open and need some help choosing a clutch. I currently have two Vortex 3 disk clutches and most of a Buller open 3 disk. Before I complete the Buller or rebuild the Vortex, I'd like to know which one to go with and need some input.
 
i use a buller 3 disk clutch and after a 25 lap feature when i come off the track i can grab the clutch with my bare hands and its not even hot.
 
Most of the guys running a kart style disc clutch have removed the factory clutch and gearbox entirely. Doing a chain driven jackshaft that is encased in the stock side cover. Frees up a lot of rotating weight in the power train.
 
Ive been running a vortex triple disc with a bully basket and clutch discs. When I bought the vortex they came with only 3 tab disc and an aluminum basket..that was a joke with the 450 power. The Vortex uses a full depth key(big plus) where the Bully does not. I now understand Vortex has 12 tab discs and a better steel hub, but Ive got 2 complete hybrids and don't plan on changing. I also know guys running the new 4 disc bully jack shaft clutch and I think they have been pretty solid. Keep in mind we have special drivers made for these by CM machine as we run #420 drive chain to the axle. We still have to stay on top of drive system maintenance to try and help avoid failures. Its not bullet proof just yet, but I have some ideas that I'm going to be trying this season.
 
tchase said:
Ive been running a vortex triple disc with a bully basket and clutch discs. When I bought the vortex they came with only 3 tab disc and an aluminum basket..that was a joke with the 450 power. The Vortex uses a full depth key(big plus) where the Bully does not. I now understand Vortex has 12 tab discs and a better steel hub, but Ive got 2 complete hybrids and don't plan on changing. I also know guys running the new 4 disc bully jack shaft clutch and I think they have been pretty solid. Keep in mind we have special drivers made for these by CM machine as we run #420 drive chain to the axle. We still have to stay on top of drive system maintenance to try and help avoid failures. Its not bullet proof just yet, but I have some ideas that I'm going to be trying this season.
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i used to run the bully 4 disk turbo jackshaft clutch and when i would come off the track that thing was smoking hot plus with the 4 disk the smallest driver you can get for it is a 14. the 3 disk you can go down to a 9 if im not mistaken. most of the tracks around here i will run either an 11 or a 13. the 12's break too easy on me.
 
tchase said:
Keep in mind we have special drivers made for these by CM machine as we run #420 drive chain to the axle.
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Why not use #428 stuff since it's a common dirtbike size so front pinions are available and you can do a rear axle swap for a 40mm euro setup and get a nice vented rotor and slide-on 428 gears in a variety of sizes... Just curious...
 
Ted please tell me who makes #428 drivers to fit a bully type clutch basket? We are running a jackshaft through our engine in lieu of the transmission and stock clutch...Rear sprockets are not the issue. Azusa will make what ever we want for the rear..its the drivers for the clutch that are not available to my knowledge.
 
Hmmmm... Well, if it were me, I'd move the Bully into the shielded case half and run a 428 driver on the driven side to the axle... I suppose it's always possible to TiG a 428 pinion to a milled down bully basket or get one machined with a spacer. The 428 front pinions can be found at PBI sprockets. If I had a machine shop at my disposal still, I'd do 'em for ya. For the appropriate fee, of course. :)
 
Anyone see a problem using 35 chain with a 70 hp motor? I've heard that the chain will hold up but wear is WAY greater and change out is necessary much more often.
I'd like to go to the 428 if I could get a driver for the vortex 3 disk. I'm not familiar with CM Machine (I'm assuming that's Chris Mello), but I wonder if they would machine a driver for the Vortex as well. Could you pass on the info?
 
The best thing to do would get the bully adapter made with the splines for whatever brand bike sprockets you want on the other side. Then you can run a much better chain and any sprocket that fits your spline.

Just getting that adapter made would be the problem, but I'm just running the bike trans and clutch system. So much less work and a lot less headache. Running 520 chain is the best way to go.
 
Heat in a clutch comes from one thing only. That is slippage. Avoid slippage, by changing stall speed and/or spring/weight combination, and heat will not be a factor.
It is very desireable to keep the clutch from overheating.
 
DonAmig said:
Anyone see a problem using 35 chain with a 70 hp motor? I've heard that the chain will hold up but wear is WAY greater and change out is necessary much more often.
I'd like to go to the 428 if I could get a driver for the vortex 3 disk. I'm not familiar with CM Machine (I'm assuming that's Chris Mello), but I wonder if they would machine a driver for the Vortex as well. Could you pass on the info?
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I ran a 35 chain on my 450 for 2 years never broke one never had wear issues any greater than with my sudam. I do recommend the third bearing to support chain life.
 
Don, the normal vortex uses the same drivers as the bully. I know CM has made drivers for the bully turbo as well. No clue on price as they are one off deals, but they are real nice! As far as #35 chain..We have been there and broke that. They may work for some, but wear is extreme on sprockets as they are very narrow. As far as re-inventing the design to run off the other side of the motor. Well then we have water pump and balance shaft issues to worry about. We have a working piece now. Nicely working actually. Just a couple areas we are looking at making better.
 
There's room for a clutch but not room for a clutch? I guess I'd better look at a case to see... I'd probably gut the gearbox except for 2 gears and use aluminum spacers and leave the stock clutch. I wonder how hard it would be to adapt the stock clutch to be centrifugal instead of pressure plate... Oh well. Never mind...
 
SHORTHOSE said:
TS motorsports, sent you an email

Wendell
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i replied to it. i have to agree with Tim Taft here because i speak from experience. the 35 holds up great to the 70hp engines. its the aluminum rear gears that wear out but with any big hp open engine that happens. the chains do stretch but what chain doesnt.
 
Ted....centrifugal clutch? Closest thing I know is the Rekulse. Had one on a 450 woods bike. Nice....start in gear...without the clutch lever....ease on the gas...off ya go. Also for any of you guys wanting to keep ur tranny on the 450's, they make a BTL (back torque limiting slipper clutch) clutch. Hold er wide open...chop the throttle...and she goes into freewheel mode...back on throttle...clutch engages back
 
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