More beginner questions.

J

jacobsdad

Member
We have checked out some of the local tracks and are still slowly planning on trying to get my 11 year old son racing next season. We are still a long ways from getting serious about finding a kart or spending any money, but the more I learn the more questions I have. I figured here would be a good place to look for more answers!
First, checking online here I found a track that raced karts. From the web it was all adults racing karts with no body, just the frame and seats. One of the guys was selling the kart. Put together with the body on it looked just like what I have been seeing race. That made me wonder, what should we be looking for when we do get serious about finding a kart? Are there any names to avoid? One my son found on Craigslist is listed as an Emmick Racing Go Kart. The frame looks similar to what I have seen at the tracks, but there is no body to it just the chassis, wheels, tires and engine.
Second, I have seen a few karts with the body style I have been seeing at the tracks and on here. The body looks like a figerglass shell, one piece. The front wrapping around to the sides. I have seen a few karts for sale that the body looks like a 3 piece deal. The nose is one piece, around the front wheels is open, then each side has a separate side piece. If this sounds confusing I can find and post pictures. What is the difference? Do the IKF rules allow both styles, or is one for pavement and one for dirt racing?
Third, tires! Everything I read leads me to believe tires are a huge part of the race. Some karts at the last track we watched ran smooth tires, some ran treaded tires. Is this just preference, or are there rules that require certain tires? I have not seen anything in the local track rules. It appears that the smooth tires would give better traction if done right, but karts with both styles of tire ran well.
I am still a long ways from buying a kart. We still have some money to save, and a lot to learn before we jump in. We have been spending our free time reading and learning everything we can! If it would help I can post links to the ads I have found for karts, or post pictures of the karts I have found for sale to see what I am looking at.
Thanks!
 
Ok, thanks! Here are a few pictures of the different styles I am seeing. I just pulled these off the internet, I won't post the advertisement for sale so I don't violate any rules. Also, some of these may belong to people on here, so they are just pictures borrowed to go along with my questions. I want to make sure we are well educated before we go out and buy anything.
I have seen a few of the Emmick and Phantom names for sale over the last few months.

This style of kart is what I have seen at the local track. This is what I was talking about with the full body.

kart1_zps7e2a1ca8.jpg
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This is what I was talking about with the 2 piece body. What is the difference between the 2 styles? Is one just newer than the other, is the 3 piece a new style or is the 3 piece made for road or asphault and the other made for dirt?

kart2_zpsbc1e4d15.jpg
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And the final picture I found, this is what I have seen a lot of local people selling. This is what I meant by no body. The number plate on the side is usually not on what I have seen for sale though. I guess I am asking if anyone knows if all 3 types will work, or if we have to look for the first one? And in the names recommended above for the better quality karts, which of the 3 styles are those?

kart3_zpsba0b85bf.jpg
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I also noticed 2 of the karts have slick tires one has treaded tires. Is this preference or is it required to run slicks on dirt oval?
Thanks again for the help answering our beginner questions! We have a LOT to learn as we get into this!
 
For a dirt oval you'll need the first type. Offset chassis, wider RS tires than LS. Get with your local track to see if they have a tire rule as for the brand of tire, like Maxxis or Burris, but they will need to be slicks. The second and third karts are straight, road racing karts. Almost all offset karts (oval) karts you'll find will have the one peice bodywork. They used to make a 3-peice body for oval karts, but they didn't look like the one in the second picture either. It pretty much looked like the one piece body, except for that there was a small gap between the back of the nose and front of the side panels where they didn't connect together. Hope this helps!

-Andy
 
By offset you mean the seat is set to the left side of center of the kart?
We are looking at Litchfield Speedway in Litchfield and Kam raceway in Hastings. Both dirt ovals.
 
When viewed from above the left frame rail on an offset kart will initially bow out near the midpoint of the chassis then curve back to the right then straighten out to the rear bumper---this allows more left side weight and as you said the seat will be a bit to the left of center. The blue kart with black bodywork and a 2 cycle motor appears to be a shifter kart that is run on left and right hand turn road paved courses. The kart with the aluminum stock car seat appears to be a rather dated chassis judging from the weight jacker on the rf(and no don't use a stock car seat)-----Go to the home page of this site and then go to Phantom, ultramax, slack as well as others websites and look at the chassis---they will all be modern and current models. Hope this helps some---don't be too quick to buy and do your research. find out what engines are used at the tracks you want to run( very few tracks are running flatheads in some areas)---don't buy something you can't run--some lessons are expensive. John Elliott
 
Thanks for the replies again. Yes, that does make a lot of sense. Around here I have seen a lot of karts that have what looks like a full size NASCAR racing seat attached. I did talk to someone that was selling one of these karts with a racing seat. There is (or was) a track close to here that raced karts. I found a video on youtube of a race at that track. It was all adults, mostly using these full size seats. The one I looked at was fairly new. He had the body but didn't run it with the body on. At first I thought it would not be too hard to use it, but the more I researched the more money it looked like I would have to spend to get it setup for a kid to run. I won't take the jump and buy one for at least a couple of months. I have more to learn first!
Thanks for answering my questions!
 
J's Dad,

In hind sight, this is what I would do! Find a good reputable local builder in your area and do your best to build a strong relationship with him. Good engine builders are a valuable resource that many overlook. Besides building good power, most builders have solid tire and chassis programs, know the tracks in the area and what works and what doesn’t. In addition, he will be available to answer the million other questions you will be asking in the future. Also, most local builders are in the “know” on the local level! They know a lot of people in the racing community and can help you get started without the worry of someone selling you a bunch of junk you don’t need. Lastly, besides your mom, there is no one on earth more concerned with your racing success than your builder.

JMO:)
 
Right now the only builders I have heard of are over 200 miles away. I am sure there are some closer though. Thanks for the advice, that sounds like a good plan! I will be looking to see what is closer to my area. On another thread I started a few months ago someone game me some names of builders. I have saved those phone numbers!
My history building stock cars, stock car engines and drag race engines I would like to build the car myself. The more I learn about karts though the more I realize I don't know! The guys on here are right, it is such a different critter it is like starting all over again learning. I decided I have a long ways to go before I am ready to build a kart or engine!
 
Take everything you know about cars and throw it out the window. The only things that are similar are the both have 4 wheels (well unless someone dont tighten the lug nuts and it will happen). They both have steering wheels (pray to god that never comes off). They both have an engine and turn left. Other than that not much more is similar. But the more you learn the more you realize you didnt undersand before. We have been doing this for about 5 years and almost every race I see something that I never thought about.
 
My priorities when choosing among used karts:
1. Track rules. Especially for kid's classes they will usually specify engine with allowed modifications and probably a restrictor plate of a certain size. They may specify tire brand(s) and size(s). They may even specify gear sizes and clutch type. They may specify bodywork. You'll need to conform to all of that in order to be legal to compete.

2. You don't have to have a new chassis, but the newer it is the more success you'll probably have due to technology obsolescence. Also your rookie driver is less likely to learn bad driving habits from compensating for an obsolete chassis. At the same time, try to get a brand that is popular at your track(s). If you do that it will be easier to get worthwhile tips from other racers since they'll be experienced with your chassis.

3. Condition. It doesn't have to be shiny, but it shouldn't be all beat up either. A rookie driver will probably hit a few things, so I'd rather sacrifice imperfect parts. But you don't want to deal with real damage. If you can, befriend a local racer whom you can trust and who doesn't have a stake in any deals you're looking at, and get him to look over stuff before you buy it. Kart chassis are designed to flex, since they don't have suspensions like cars, and that flexing can cause metal fatigue. They are sensitive to wreck damage.

Pretty much any professionally built chassis should be competitive. You and your driver will need experience before you can really figure which brand is best for you. Try to get a brand that is popular in your area, per reasons stated above. Make sure it is compatible with the rules you'll race under, and is designed for the type of track you'll race at. A "LTO" or left turn only design is for circle tracks (with offset to the left), and there will be some differences between dirt and pavement racers. Road courses turn left and right, so you'll want a chassis with less offset.

You are correct that tires are a big factor. You might want to start by subscribing to a tire program (advice / prep / pressures / etc.) that a successful local racer can provide. But before you get involved with all of the tire stuff, you'll have so much to learn that you can start with just a set of tires (or two sets, each of different hardness) and delve deeper into this after your driver is becoming comfortable with racing. You'll want decent tires for your track, but you don't have to sweat the details at first. Engines are a similar deal. Rookie drivers usually can't get the most out of an engine so you don't have to start with a high dollar top shelf engine. But you do want one that is reliable. The easiest way to start is buy a good used engine from a local engine builder. Experience will teach you how to get more out of an engine and possibly who to buy it from, or how to build your own. For now, focus upon getting a good reliable kart on the track and learning how to work on it and drive it.

You're going about this the right way. Too many buy something first and then have to try to adapt it. Best of luck!
 
I know nothing about your abilities, but building your own frame, right out of the gate, may be a bigger challenge than you know.

I know nothing about the tools you have at your disposal, or your skills as an engine builder, but you might start out with a purchased, blueprinted, engine.

I know how much fun it is to do your own stuff, I've done it myself, but not when I first started.

Building frames and blueprinting engines requires a lot of specialized tools, some of them very expensive. Depending on your resources, this may or may not be a consideration.

In any case, whether or not you do it, you might want to get started racing right away, (developing the skills you will need will take some time) and buying a used kart and engine might be the best way to get started. No matter what you do, learning to driving is very important, probably a lot more important than you think. If it looks easy to you, you've got another thought coming. Setup is very important, tires are very important, and even though you probably have a head start, the learning curve is pretty steep.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
I haven't been able to get online in a while. Thanks again for the information everyone. We are still looking and learning, not quite ready to take the leap to buying a car yet. I have seen a few decent ones come and go but want to make sure I know what I am getting before spending the money.
Still looking to get in the game, just taking it slow.
Oh, and I agree I am nowhere close to having the ability to build a frame. Not even an option with my abilities. I would like to build the engine, but do have a lot to learn about small engines. I can see right away it is not the same as building a V-8!
 
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