Mikyll You should be ok.The FT64 is a great piece of equipment. I don't know the fuel regulations in your state, or if you are near the state line. Make sure you do your home work and check the stations in near by towns on the way to your track. I know most, but not all of the stations in Missouri, the readings are close to each other as are the ones in Arkansas, just not from state to state. Make sure you declare with or without ethanol, and be available to check fuel before the races start. If you are not already certified, contact Dyno Don and get trained. He is a great person to have available for help, and support. Good Luck Bill
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Need help understanding the Digtron fuel testing method.
- Thread starter kkc
- Start date
Evidently the new fuel tester is doing its job, contrary to what some think. If tech person is following procedures recommended by Digatron and others such as Dyno Don and others who have been properly trained, then I don't think any one is being DQ'd because they are 1 point off the spec fuel, its that they are maybe 1 point off the plus or minus range from the spec fuel that tech uses. In other words if tech allows on DC1 +/-25 points either direction form the spec fuel and you are 26 points off then your outside the range, if they allow +/-3 points on DC2 and your 4 points off then you are outside the range. Most karters will be within 12 points on DC1 or even closer 3 - 5 points if they got from same fuel pump at station and on DC2 will be within 1 or 2 points and those tolerances are very lenient.
If a tank of fuel passes then it won't contaminate the next tank, if a tank is questionable then the probe is to be sprayed with non chlorinated brake cleaner and then the person teching waits until it returns to the normal reading with probe in the open air before teching another fuel...
Would a spec fuel at the track not help with this? For example VP's MR12. Sure its more expensive but clones use so little gas does it really matter? At least then you are starting with a known-good baseline and not playing the gas station roulette.
By the same token, since pump fuel is inconsistent surely if your sample fails you should be able to request that the meter be re-run against a recent more sample from the pump? Ie if the base sample was taken on Friday, the tanks were re-filled overnight and you bought your fuel on Sat you could end up with an out of range reading, even though you have legal fuel.
By the same token, since pump fuel is inconsistent surely if your sample fails you should be able to request that the meter be re-run against a recent more sample from the pump? Ie if the base sample was taken on Friday, the tanks were re-filled overnight and you bought your fuel on Sat you could end up with an out of range reading, even though you have legal fuel.
ONEHARDHEAD
Member
I think we are overreacting here. This is an individual racer problem, not a problem with this track. We respect these two tech men and race at two different tracks where they tech together. There are seldom any DQ's at these two tracks on fuel. We have been one of those thrown out before, and it was our fault, not that of the inspectors. Attention to detail makes all the difference in the world.
So well put onehardhead....the same goes for most tracks that follow the guidelines.
I have stated the proper guidelines many times on here, its very simple and not as hard as made out to be...
1. State what fuel you are using as spec fuel
2. Test that spec fuel with a meter such as the FT64 and take readings on both DC1 and DC2,the FT64 makes then at the same time, the FT47 requires two separate tests.
3. Set limits of how many points you are allowing from spec fuel(would not recommend over 30 on D1 and 3 on DC2) but a track can allow what ever they want.
4. Check karts if you are requiring tech after qualifying, after heats, after features or just after features..what ever track requires.
5. If anyone is outside limits then do what your track says is their procedures.
To me its no different than go and no go gauges or other tolerances that have a min and max reading...pure and simple. You should not tell karters what a reading is specifically prior to the feature as they will start playing games with their fuel, just state they are within or out of range.
Tech people can either give so many points from what ever their spec fuel reads or with the new FT64 zero DC1 and DC2 when in the spec fuel and then allow tolerances plus or minus from zero, this way makes math more easier.
Dyno Don(Don Gordner) has a very good DVD on using the FT64 instrument, it shows just what a little non legal additive does to fuel readings and is ok for seeing this. The trouble he goes to ,to show what additives does and exactly how much it changes and what directions the readings go is not necessary for a tech person at a race when they are really only interested in how for from the spec fuel that a racers fuel is and if its within the track tolerances allowed.
Most Tech people who have used the new FT64 instrument can now tell you if the fuel has been doctored or is just old fuel or a tank has been used for other fuels or the wrong fuel was purchased, thats why I don't recommend calling some one a cheater just say their fuel didn't fall within the tolerances allowed that day for some reason.
Most karters if offered a pre race check on their fuel and it shows outside of tolerance allow can just empty the tank out ,slosh some fuel from a karter around that was legal and then use a known good fuel and be ok, others may have such a contaminated
tank that its hard to get it to check right...if its ever had any Nitro in it then it may never clear up to standards, the same goes for some other well known fuel additives.
I have over the last 8 years purchased many different fuels from stations in different areas or had others to do so and if 87 octane ethanol based is purchased at all the stations around there will be very little differences in the readings taken, especially on DC2, the same goes if you compare 87 non ethanol based to other stations non ethanol fuels, there is very little differences in their readings. But there is a difference between 87 octane ethanol based and 87 non ethanol fuels that's why it requires a track to specify which they are allowing.
I hope this helps some understand what the tech is doing with a fuel tester.
I have stated the proper guidelines many times on here, its very simple and not as hard as made out to be...
1. State what fuel you are using as spec fuel
2. Test that spec fuel with a meter such as the FT64 and take readings on both DC1 and DC2,the FT64 makes then at the same time, the FT47 requires two separate tests.
3. Set limits of how many points you are allowing from spec fuel(would not recommend over 30 on D1 and 3 on DC2) but a track can allow what ever they want.
4. Check karts if you are requiring tech after qualifying, after heats, after features or just after features..what ever track requires.
5. If anyone is outside limits then do what your track says is their procedures.
To me its no different than go and no go gauges or other tolerances that have a min and max reading...pure and simple. You should not tell karters what a reading is specifically prior to the feature as they will start playing games with their fuel, just state they are within or out of range.
Tech people can either give so many points from what ever their spec fuel reads or with the new FT64 zero DC1 and DC2 when in the spec fuel and then allow tolerances plus or minus from zero, this way makes math more easier.
Dyno Don(Don Gordner) has a very good DVD on using the FT64 instrument, it shows just what a little non legal additive does to fuel readings and is ok for seeing this. The trouble he goes to ,to show what additives does and exactly how much it changes and what directions the readings go is not necessary for a tech person at a race when they are really only interested in how for from the spec fuel that a racers fuel is and if its within the track tolerances allowed.
Most Tech people who have used the new FT64 instrument can now tell you if the fuel has been doctored or is just old fuel or a tank has been used for other fuels or the wrong fuel was purchased, thats why I don't recommend calling some one a cheater just say their fuel didn't fall within the tolerances allowed that day for some reason.
Most karters if offered a pre race check on their fuel and it shows outside of tolerance allow can just empty the tank out ,slosh some fuel from a karter around that was legal and then use a known good fuel and be ok, others may have such a contaminated
tank that its hard to get it to check right...if its ever had any Nitro in it then it may never clear up to standards, the same goes for some other well known fuel additives.
I have over the last 8 years purchased many different fuels from stations in different areas or had others to do so and if 87 octane ethanol based is purchased at all the stations around there will be very little differences in the readings taken, especially on DC2, the same goes if you compare 87 non ethanol based to other stations non ethanol fuels, there is very little differences in their readings. But there is a difference between 87 octane ethanol based and 87 non ethanol fuels that's why it requires a track to specify which they are allowing.
I hope this helps some understand what the tech is doing with a fuel tester.
I was just asking more of a general question. I think using fuel from an everyday gas station and trying to tech it is precarious as best.
Thanks captnimo. Remind me to make a wiki spot for you on kartpulse.com so we can get this kind of information communicated with the clubs and orgs. It often gets buried in forums leading you to have to keep repeating yourself
Thanks captnimo. Remind me to make a wiki spot for you on kartpulse.com so we can get this kind of information communicated with the clubs and orgs. It often gets buried in forums leading you to have to keep repeating yourself
Its not as bad as you would think if....tracks declare with or without ethanol, declaring without ethanol would be nice except, that fuel is getting harder to obtain everywhere so ethanol based fuels are the norm.
We all know what ethanol does to containers, especially the cheap plastic ones, the ethanol in gas tends to leach out other chemicals from the plastic, I'm not a chemist so I can't tell you what physically is happening, but I do know from tests in fuels that have aged, it does show some type of action taking place. Of course this is nothing new as we have always had problems in methanol being store properly, if gas fuels are stored and used in clean containers most problems would not exist if proper fuel is purchased.
We all know what ethanol does to containers, especially the cheap plastic ones, the ethanol in gas tends to leach out other chemicals from the plastic, I'm not a chemist so I can't tell you what physically is happening, but I do know from tests in fuels that have aged, it does show some type of action taking place. Of course this is nothing new as we have always had problems in methanol being store properly, if gas fuels are stored and used in clean containers most problems would not exist if proper fuel is purchased.