Track Tac

Northern vs Southern Dirt Karting

Bergh223

Bergh223

Member
Just a general topic for discussion on here. You read sites like this and more than 75% of the info is based on Hard, Calcium, "Dirtphalt" tracks running Maxxis tires. Seems like the tracks up here in NY are all Burris, and not the same type of clay. They may get hard, but they are super dusty and low to medium bite.

I just started to get into dirt this year and learned a bit, got a few different types of preps and a few sets of burris 22's and 33's punching anywhere from 50 up to 64. I feel like I am going in the right direction.

When I talk to a people who run down south, they talk about running tires that punch 45 on tracks that are dry and dusty. But from experience and also talking with anyone up here, the story is different. At tracks like Oswego, Paradise, etc, if the track is dry and dusty you are on a tire thats punching 57-60 (or more?) or you are in the back.

Is there a difference in the soil that causes the difference in North South? Is it the calcium? Or the fact that Maxxis work totally different than Burris? Trying to get a jump on next year.
 
Started off with 90cc of HL2 on the inside of all 4 tires, rolled for 24 hours. The only outside treatment I had been using is Insanity Yellow Crush as a pre race, tires settled in around 53-55. I did pretty well when the track had some moisture in it, ended up winning by some stroke of luck! However, when the track (paradise in Geneva, NY) went back to its typical conditions of hard, dry, and dusty I was off the pace. Realized I probably had my current sets too heavy, and bought a new set of 33's and got them cut. Nothing inside of them. Ended up purchasing some of the Insanity HardTrack outside to add bite with out dropping the duro. Havent had a chance to do a lot of testing with the new set because getting engaged does that to you.

Is the new set of 33's with just the work on the outside going in the right direction? If needed, do I need to go a 4th set and do a lighter inside roll? Read that with the Burris, if you buy them now, cut em, and let em sit till next year you will be in good shape. Figured I'd ask these questions now to better prepare for 2015.
 
If the track has less bite, why would you turn to a tire that has less internal? I run down south in Florida mostly, but we all don't race on the high biting red clay that you find in the Carolina's. I mostly run Maxxis, but on low biting tracks I still roll as much, if not more internally. I just make sure to wipe the tires during the week to build bite in the tires before the race. If you have no internal in the tires and then don't even wipe until you get to the track, you have way too much catching up to do at the track to even be competitive IMO
 
Is there a particular reason why you haven't used Insanity on the inside? Im just curious because when preps are mixed, it becomes a whole new cup of tea.
 
for duro around 50-64 that is 33 if not 55 territory... you should feel a big difference with the sidewalls prepping a 55 (62 out of wrapper) down to 50/55 on the duro.
 
blh0728 said:
If the track has less bite, why would you turn to a tire that has less internal? I run down south in Florida mostly, but we all don't race on the high biting red clay that you find in the Carolina's. I mostly run Maxxis, but on low biting tracks I still roll as much, if not more internally. I just make sure to wipe the tires during the week to build bite in the tires before the race. If you have no internal in the tires and then don't even wipe until you get to the track, you have way too much catching up to do at the track to even be competitive IMO
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Big difference between Burris and Maxxis, burris doesnt take a bunch of inside prep
 
In response to blh0728, I read XXX's point on here in the past and thats why I was scared to do another rolled set. I was hoping to get out a few more times and see if the set with out the inside prep had more roll speed. well see.

Thanks Kyle, I will have to look into a set of 55's. That might be the way to go.

I appreciate the feedback guys!
 
XXX#40 said:
Big difference between Burris and Maxxis, burris doesnt take a bunch of inside prep
Click to expand...

I agree. Maxxis need to be worked much harder and need to be softer than a burris 33 under the same track conditions to work. Dont compare the two. I hardly ever internal prep Burris 33's. Most preps wont work internal in them anyway. If you run 55's thats a whole new ball game and they will need inside prepped. Stick with your plan and let us know how it works out. Its easy to over prep a 33 so start conservative and slowly creep up on it. They will punch about 52 brand new so you can only wipe them once or twice and will be down to a 50 duro. Give that a try. If its dry and dusty make sure your using a prep for that condition.
 
Yes, the dirt/grip is different from north to south, but they have tracks down south that never bite up too (water the snot out of it, or sandy loose tracks with no calcium.) That may not be the "norm" in Maxxis country, but I've seen tracks in the south that take a Vega or Hoosier punching in the teens! You don't find anyone running Pinks on that type of track.

The particular cut that you use on Burris makes a big difference as well. Crown (or round) cut for lower spring rate, and flat cut for less side bite (frees the kart up.) Maxxis are rarely cut round. If they are cut at all, they are relatively flat cut and try to keep a fresh edge on them. About 75% of the Burris we cut are what I'd consider high crown cuts for low to no bite tracks measuring anywhere from .060" to .080" at the wear dots and full rubber in the center. For a local Saturday night joint, we might roll 60-90 CC internal and wipe as much bite onto the outside of the tire as it'll take. Now, you wouldn't take a tire like that to a $50,000 to win race on red clay. What will be fast there would be .020" - .040" flat cut with nothing internal at all to try to get the spring rate as high as possible and no bite added to the tire other than maybe a wipe of acrysol before hitting the track.

I hear this guy and that guy say that "you must internal roll" or "you never internal roll" Burris tires. To me anyhow, that's a bunch of nonsense. You roll a set of tires for a specific track situation. You are manipulating the tire to be what you need it to be for that particular track and condition. About half of our personal Burris 33 inventory is internally rolled, the other half have nothing internal. If I'm going to a big race (big car count) or to a big "high speed" race track, I'll leave most of the internal rolled sets at home and concentrate on external.

Also, BIG BIG differences in tires between Maxxis and Burris -- Keep in mind that Maxxis is synthetic rubber (ie plastic) and works as a great sponge for preps. Burris have a MUCH softer spring rate than the Maxxis - that affects roll speed, side bite, and a whole host of issues. Where one brand of tire is fast, the other brand generally will not be. Two totally different tire constructions.

If you need more roll speed and less side bite, prepping a set of 55's down in duro might well be the way to go. This way you're getting the stiffer sidewall of a 55, but can get the duro down to the 50s where a 33 is out of the wrapper. Not too difficult to work 55sdown from the outside and keep that higher spring rate advantage.



-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com

Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Very cool, I genuinely appreciate all the good info Wes and Brian. Looks like my best bet is to work a set of 55's and test against the 33's. Im hoping to start running the NYDKS next season (if I stop getting invited to weddings that are on the same weekends!) so knowing what the 33's will do will help. They have a 33 only rule. My local track is Burris Only, and a 1/4 mile. I think the worked 55's will be the ticket.
 
Bergh223 said:
Very cool, I genuinely appreciate all the good info Wes and Brian. Looks like my best bet is to work a set of 55's and test against the 33's. Im hoping to start running the NYDKS next season (if I stop getting invited to weddings that are on the same weekends!) so knowing what the 33's will do will help. They have a 33 only rule. My local track is Burris Only, and a 1/4 mile. I think the worked 55's will be the ticket.
Click to expand...

you might also try a set of ss44's or B44's if you can find a set cheap, the sidewalls arent as stiff as a 55 but not as soft as a 33, and you can prep them down some like these guys are saying to do with 55's. Burris tires are all i run, on mostly medium bite tracks but occasionally we get on the low bite or high bite tracks also, just not often. a couple weeks ago, i got 2 sets of B44's given to me and decided to give them a try on a good medium bite 1/5 mile track, i rolled 4oz in the rights and 2oz in the lefts of one set using Liquid Speed LS2, which is not meant to be used as an internal prep, but i mixed the LS2 50/50 with Hotlap 2 just to try something new. I ended up with a tire punching 55-56 on the duro for the right sides, 57 on the left rear and 54 on the left front.... Those tires actually were the ticket, and won both classes i ran that night with that set. This was all just a guess, to try something new and it worked well. Just experiment a little, you may be surprised what you find
 
Ok so I'm new to karting this year and I wanted to get a little clarification. On the track I am running I run a set of 33's punching 50-55. When you are talking about spring rate with the kart is this just the handling of the bumps and such on the track? If I had a set of 55's dropped down to 50-55 would this in theory get me less rolling resistance with the stiffer side walls and maybe handle the bumps a little better. I'm having good results with the 33's just looking to go a little faster!
 
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