Predator vs animal

M

mrdeeds50

Member
What are the pros and cons building these into a sbo assuming you already have 1 of each engine but stock? Which is the better way to go in you opinion?
 
Find myself in the same dilema, have them both and cant decide. Have seen some killer builds with either. I feel that there may be some benefits to starting with the animal platform.
 
I have reviewed the options as well, saying you have a 212 and animal to start, if you have the tillitson block already, for sure the 212, but saying starting from scratch the cost of the 212 is still much cheaper to do than a animal.. assuming billet head, billet side cover and stroker can’t beat the EC prices
 
My son and I have been playing around with both Predators and Animals, making similar mods to both. We've found they will both make similar power, but the Animals hold up better and run longer between rebuilds. As was said, it costs more money to do the Animal. On the other hand, we've finished every race entered with the Animals, but can't say that for the Predators.
 
Animal - hands down for me when building SBO.
Better block for sure. Cylinder head leaves a lot to be desired though. If you are allowed a billet head, then no problem.
The newer Tillotson block is a good start (if you use a billet sidecover) and will save you some money over the whole build I suppose but durability/longevity seems to be an issue.
Availability of aftermarket parts for each is not an issue.
Donor shortblocks for the animal are easily found from retired LO206 engines. Stroker cranks can be found from donor WKA flatheads that are selling cheap currently.


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I wouldn't use the Predator. The better question as others pointed out is the Tillotson vs Animal.

The Tillotson being based on the Honda GX200/Clone means the cost is lower for most of the components and because those platforms are far more common and less expensive. There are more companies, therefore competition, involved in continuing development of parts for that engine. That means more options for cylinder heads, valve train, carburetors, pistons, rods, crankshafts, etc and in many cases better than the Animal or Intek equivalent. It also means there will be newer part options in the future whereas the Animal and Intek is fairly stagnate.

Reliability is difficult to argue since it depends on how extreme the build, and the experience and technique of the builder. For example we have a regular dyno competition and in the 14.5ci open class, a Tillotson cast block engine made more power than a PPM all billet animal. Both engines ran big races like the Big O, Thanksgiving Thunder, Batesvilles, etc so they are not strictly dyno queens and have plenty of laps on them. The Tillotson may have required a lot of experience and a lot of work but if it wasn't push as hard it could still be a competitive engine while improving its reliability. For what it's worth, I believe at least two Tillotson cast blocks finish in the top 5 at the Big O this year.

For argument sake if the block reliability is in question or would have better rebuild intervals, then a billet block can be considered as well. The raised decks would allow longer rods to reduce rod angle for less piston wear, the longer rod would also help the rod ratio to slow the piston at TDC which reduces wrist pin flex and wear at the journal and top of the bore. The higher up front cost would pay off in the long run.

The most common failures from any engine is usually the valve train and less so the crankshaft. Out right block failure isn't common for either Tillotson or Animal unless something else failed first. I look at failures as an unavoidable part of racing, these are lawnmower engines we decided to turn 10,000rpms. I would look at the cost of rebuilding and cost of replacement since it is more predictable that reliability.

Another question would be, "what is your competition?" In our experience you may need less engine than you think. If you are competing against strong drivers with billet engines, you will have your work cut out for you. If you are running local events against all cast 212cc or 223cc engines, you're racing against guys on a budget. On that same idea, what is the best bang for your buck or what is your budget? That may also help decide which engine to build.
 
I have a couple animal blocks sitting around and a few predators sitting around. I have a couple big vale animal heads with 1.3 rockers but i could also very easily build a big valve predator head too. I'm leaning towards the animal because I have abunch of raptor cranks sitting around so I could easily build a stroker with one. But I see performance parts for the predators seem to be very reasonable. A billet block is not in my budget and the sbo class only has 3 or 4 guys a night. I have a 342 that I blew up but they are a dead horse anymore when trying to find parts.
 
Mark @ EC said:
I wouldn't use the Predator. The better question as others pointed out is the Tillotson vs Animal.

The Tillotson being based on the Honda GX200/Clone means the cost is lower for most of the components and because those platforms are far more common and less expensive. There are more companies, therefore competition, involved in continuing development of parts for that engine. That means more options for cylinder heads, valve train, carburetors, pistons, rods, crankshafts, etc and in many cases better than the Animal or Intek equivalent. It also means there will be newer part options in the future whereas the Animal and Intek is fairly stagnate.

Reliability is difficult to argue since it depends on how extreme the build, and the experience and technique of the builder. For example we have a regular dyno competition and in the 14.5ci open class, a Tillotson cast block engine made more power than a PPM all billet animal. Both engines ran big races like the Big O, Thanksgiving Thunder, Batesvilles, etc so they are not strictly dyno queens and have plenty of laps on them. The Tillotson may have required a lot of experience and a lot of work but if it wasn't push as hard it could still be a competitive engine while improving its reliability. For what it's worth, I believe at least two Tillotson cast blocks finish in the top 5 at the Big O this year.

For argument sake if the block reliability is in question or would have better rebuild intervals, then a billet block can be considered as well. The raised decks would allow longer rods to reduce rod angle for less piston wear, the longer rod would also help the rod ratio to slow the piston at TDC which reduces wrist pin flex and wear at the journal and top of the bore. The higher up front cost would pay off in the long run.

The most common failures from any engine is usually the valve train and less so the crankshaft. Out right block failure isn't common for either Tillotson or Animal unless something else failed first. I look at failures as an unavoidable part of racing, these are lawnmower engines we decided to turn 10,000rpms. I would look at the cost of rebuilding and cost of replacement since it is more predictable that reliability.

Another question would be, "what is your competition?" In our experience you may need less engine than you think. If you are competing against strong drivers with billet engines, you will have your work cut out for you. If you are running local events against all cast 212cc or 223cc engines, you're racing against guys on a budget. On that same idea, what is the best bang for your buck or what is your budget? That may also help decide which engine to build.
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any date on that EC Billet block????
 
mrdeeds50 said:
I have a couple animal blocks sitting around and a few predators sitting around. I have a couple big vale animal heads with 1.3 rockers but i could also very easily build a big valve predator head too. I'm leaning towards the animal because I have abunch of raptor cranks sitting around so I could easily build a stroker with one. But I see performance parts for the predators seem to be very reasonable. A billet block is not in my budget and the sbo class only has 3 or 4 guys a night. I have a 342 that I blew up but they are a dead horse anymore when trying to find parts.
Click to expand...

I always suggest burning down what you got first, the less money you spend the more fun you'll have. If it's minimal investment go with the Animal especially if your other option is a Predator.

If you decide to go with a clone based engine in the future reach out to us and we can help you get start in the right direct. For example you mention using the Predator cylinder head, when it comes to cylinder heads there are a lot of options that are a better platform than the stock Predator Head. The Shredder/Lifan Heads, the Gage Warhead, and our EVO or soon to be release Wildcat WC946 heads. Each head has a different starting price level but each have advantages because they were designed with performance in mind. That's why I push the Honda-based platforms, there are a lot of options and those are just the cast heads.

J'-remy said:
any date on that EC Billet block????
Click to expand...
I have about 8 almost ready to go. Send me an email at sales@eccarburetors.com if you want one and I'll give you all the details.

CarlsonMotorsports said:
Where are they allowing billet blocks in SBO? I've got a new JR billet animal block here that I'd like to do something with. :)
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That's a good question, I assume that SBO is any displacement small block(engine mount & 3/4 shaft) as opposed to UAS or RWYB that would allow nearly any kind of engine. Or its a reference to the 14.5ci open small block class.

I also understand there are all-cast classes or classes that prohibit billet blocks but allow billet heads and side covers but those seem to be specific rule sets.
 
The Animal will also have the ability out of the box to swap coil packs with varying rpm limits if you're worried about over-revving the motor.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Where are they allowing billet blocks in SBO? I've got a new JR billet animal block here that I'd like to do something with. :)
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its small block open should be ran anywhere.just like a stock appearing animal or raptor should be running in stock appearing but they dont want them to.clone agenda by motor builders🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Bradley71 said:
its small block open should be ran anywhere.just like a stock appearing animal or raptor should be running in stock appearing but they dont want them to.clone agenda by motor builders🤷🏻‍♂️
Click to expand...
I hate to be like that but its truth.rules are screwed up.shouldnt be a rule its open thats why people run it.
 
Komet99 said:
Do you want a Chinese open or an American open?
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the animal is NOT made in the US and nether was the Raptor 4 flathead block that was/is considered the most desirable one. if you want US your gonna have to go billet and EC is making a billet clone block that will put the PPM out of the game
 
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