slipping timing issue

Oh really. Have u ever done it? I have found cracked aluminum flywheels and aluminum blocks with the ring test.
I won't guarente​e that it will find all of them but if it doesn't ring and you can't see a crack u may want to resort to further testing.
 
Ok Jimbo, I did the ring test as you described and suggested, and it makes a nice ding noise, so I am assuming that is good. I have used machinist dye on the crank taper and found no cracks also, did same on the old flywheel taper and no cracks present either. When I lapped the new flywheel on the crank, the back edge of the flywheel is now sitting about .060" or more from the block support, while the old flywheel was literally up against the block support the last time I started the engine, there is a nice round ring in my block support from the flywheel rubbing it the last time I lapped the old wheel and put it on, luckily I shut the engine off and pulled off the track after just a couple laps because it had slipped time, I feel like if it ran long like that some serious damage could have happened.

So, with the new flywheel, when I lapped it to the crank it was a nice smooth contact patch from the front to the back of the taper, exactly what I was hoping to see. I also used about half a tube of red loctite when I put the new flywheel on and timed it, then torqued it down to 90lb/ft. Ill give the red loctite all night and most of the day tomorow to cure before I try to start the engine up, if it slips this time I'm gonna have no choice but to put a new crank in also.

I have one new crank here that is supposed to he a flathead crank, but the clutch side of the crank where the side cover bearing would sit is bigger than the flathead crank that is in my engine...that tells me this new crank I have is not a flathead crank, unless some flathead cranks had a bigger shaft where the side cover bearing sits. Does that make any sense to you? I can take a picture of the new crank if needed and post here for you to see Jimbo, maybe you can tell me what it is. The crank journal is the same size as my crank in the engine now is, and the flywheel fits snug on the crank taper of that new crank, just the part where the side cover bearing sits is bigger is the only difference I can see, and doesn't make sense to me.
 
Roofer Dude said:
Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers ... sorry
Click to expand...

You haven't ruffled any feathers, I appreciate your input I just don't agree with using a key to hold the flywheel in place, if you do then we can just agree to disagree on that part, and move on
 
Flatheads early bearing vs later bearing and bushing cranks. Flathead gasket sets came with both seals. Sidecover was also different. I believe there is a bearing to fit either crank to either sidecover.

Bushing crank will work with correct bearing.
That how I remember it antway.
 
Back in the 90's there were flat head cranks that had a much smaller PTO bearing than used since the Raptor came out.
I don't remember the size but since then the PTO bearing has had a 1 inch ID PTO bearing.
The stock Animal crank has a 1.062" ID PTO bearing.
 
Put the new flywheel on and took the engine to a fair race last night and absolutely dominated with it until I was wrecked under caution. I'm just glad the new flywheel fixed my issues, it held time all night long without a problem guys. This was my first full race on the engine since I rebuilt it over the winter, so it was nice seeing it out front where it should be
 
I lap my flywheels, clean the tapers good on both parts. Put one drop of Loc-Tite on the crank taper. Put the flywheel on it and spin it around to distribute the Loc-Tite. Position the flywheel where I want it and torque it down. Never had one move.
 
flattop1 said:
Zach this is for your animal ?
With flathead crank.
May not change things.
Click to expand...

Yes 2.776 bore animal, Raptor crank, ARC stroker rod #6240, with a Havoc dome piston, 32* timing is what i set it at this time and it was an absolute beast on the track in a field full of open animals, easily put a strait away on the field right from the start. Its finally running like it should be and is holding time with the new flywheel
 
NCStratos288 said:
I lap my flywheels, clean the tapers good on both parts. Put one drop of Loc-Tite on the crank taper. Put the flywheel on it and spin it around to distribute the Loc-Tite. Position the flywheel where I want it and torque it down. Never had one move.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what i do, only this time i put half a tube of red loctite on it, spun it then seated it where i wanted it, and torqued it to 90 lb ft. I found the reason the old flywheel was slipping, there is a raised edge just behind the taper on the crank, which i am guessing is from lapping the old flywheel so many times, to the point where the old flywheel was sitting on that raised edge and wasnt making full contact with the taper. The new flywheel sits about .060" or more away from the block than the old flywheel did, so it is getting full contact with the taper like it should and is holding time
 
Jimbo said:
Back in the 90's there were flat head cranks that had a much smaller PTO bearing than used since the Raptor came out.
I don't remember the size but since then the PTO bearing has had a 1 inch ID PTO bearing.
The stock Animal crank has a 1.062" ID PTO bearing.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense Jimbo, i believe one of my cranks is an old crank and the other is the Raptor crank, as im told by the builder who originally built this animal. I completely rebuilt it over the winter, sleeving the block and going to the 2.776" Havoc R-921 piston, those were the only changes i made other than new rod bearings, rings, and valve seats recut.
 
What im seeing is the new crank i have is bigger than the raptor crank, but not the same as a stock animal crank either....it makes no sense. Ill get some pictures and measurements tomorow, maybe someone here will reconize it. It does have the briggs logo stamped in it, has the key'ed cam gear just like the one on my crank but with no dot on that gear, flywheel side is identical. Do the cranks from bushing blocks have a bigger bearing journal on the clutch side than bearing blocks?
 
Here are some pics of the flathead crank i was talking about, that doesnt match up with the flathead crank in my animal now. Keep in mind, the pics with the calipers measuring the crank are likely not dead accurate since these are a pair of cheap digital calipers from harbor freight and may be off a thousandth or more, im not sure. Rod journal and flywheel bearing journal does measure the same as what is in my engine, but the side cover bearing journal is smaller than the flathead crank that is in the engine. Crank gear appears to be the same amount of teeth with the dot being in a different location, i have marked where the dot is on my other gear compared to the gear on the new crank. If anyone reconizes what this crank is, let me know please. It looks identical to the one in the engine other than that side cover bearing journal being smaller. I said in my last post that the bearing journal on the new crank was bigger but i was mistaken when i said that, confused myself i guess. I know for a fact the crank in the engine now is a raptor crank.

http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_015_zpsl7zselhj.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_014_zpscqii4soh.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_016_zpscchodwp8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_017_zpslts7xbyd.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_018_zpsl70xvwls.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_022_zpsmo7borpw.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_023_zpsmx30phd3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_024_zpsxtml4qqw.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

With my stroker rod bolted and torqued down, which is a perfect fit on the journal
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/W..._20170609_021_zpssgkcfxis.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3
 
Looks like a small journal crank.
Is the PTO side the problem or flywheel side.
That's likely not going to work in your application.
 
Pto side bearing is the problem, everything else is identical to the raptor crank in the engine. I am wondering if Jimbo or someone else sells a conversion bearing and seal to allow people to use these cranks in animal side covers...i think someone makes them but can't think of who. Our other animal has that small crank, bearing and seal in it, so they are out there somewhere
 
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