Spindle Angle
- Thread starter MAS
- Start date
This a great discussion and keep it going. I dont agree with als vocabulary on this subject,but i want to hear what he has to say. My opinion scrub radius is timing mechanism for left rear. Also scrub radius can steel roll speed. So how do we identify if scrub radius is the problem or tire prep? Are adjustable chassis even useful in recent history?
FlatheadsForever87
Member
XXX#40
2A supporter
Let me get this right, you have never raced anything in your life, you inherited some old engine building equipment?
And now youre an expert in dirt oval kart racing?
Go ahead, post the temps of the tires that you read at your last dirt oval kart race TIA, ill hang up and listen
Tire temps on concrete or asphalt will be different than on dirt.
Tire temps on dirt will be what they are, the only thing that matters are lap times compared to the fast guys
FlatheadsForever87
Member
Well since u want to get this straight I raced for 2 or 3 years. Who cares how long I raced first of all. Thats not what I'm interested in. Not everyone can be the driver. But let me get this straight, you were sponsored by some unknown chassis company 300 years ago. Back when they thought it was a good idea to run a third bearing on the axel, and you think you know everything about racing?? Excuse me not racing, the dynamics of everything around racing. Except ypu are the only one that claims something is worthless out of a pretty big group of knowledgeable fellas. Your right you win. My bad. Can you send me a signed copy of YOUR book on racing so I can study up on what not to do?
FlatheadsForever87
Member
So with that said would you shoot for using the entire tread patch evenly or one side or the other. I mean if thats the way you do it wouldn't it make more sense to use a smaller with tire and lose some of the un needed static weight? Does that make sense?
Yes exactly. If you go out on a cold moist track you come off the track your tires are colder. Dont need a tire temp tool your hand can easily feel it. Once you have enough grip you actually have too much. So you work on roll speed and what i call chassis timing to unload the kart to maintain maximum momentum. You will see people cut tires and go with narrow wheels to reduce rotating weight and cut tire to get desired contact patch and shed heat. Only way to find out is try it all see what does what for yourself. Aint kart racing fun.
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FoldsKart15
Member
This convo should probably...steer away from so much animosity...geez.
XXX#40
2A supporter
Staggered rear axle, staggered front, excessive front camber.
We try to use as little of tire on the track as possible and still make speed, we only use about 3 inches of the tires, we dont want to use the whole tire it creates drag, but I forgot you know this
paulkish
old fart
I'm old and forgetful too and your right I'm sure does know and understand it.
This convo made me think of something else as far as a wide RF tire goes.
We discuss clutch gearing in terms of size helping depending on if you need acceleration or need to maintain momentum for track conditions, keeping the same gear ratio.
The only thing turning the "big" RF tire is your engine.
Might if of been proven via experience to some a bigger RF tire helps when momentum is key and a smaller one is better when acceleration is key, assuming as in a ratio is a ratio both large or small will provide enough grip to do what you need done with the RF tire?
I'm going to say without experience trying to see a difference that it will make a difference and big RF tire lends it's use to long momentum tracks where a smaller RF tire will help on a shorter tight bull ring where acceleration is key.
It just seems to make sense to me.
I also see where those down south who race primarily on 1/5th and bigger tracks and commonly 1/4 mile would swear by and demand bigger with more camber is the speed.
But I don't know and I'm asking? Yes Al there is a Santa Clause. ...
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
Folks cut tires to reduce the amount of bite that said tire has in the track more than reducing weight, and going to narrower wheels actually adds more bite, straightening up the sidewall of said tire. Folks would actually go wider with the tire if it werent for the 10" rule. Now yes there are times when someone will use a narrower wheel, but that is pretty rare, in this day of prep.
I will say this, and you all can take it as you would like, when it comes to tire temps. Ive been to about every big race in the country, karting wise dirt oval, AND never have i seen the winner take ANY tire temps, and this includes The Insane One events, or any of the $20,000 to win Tri State events. Most of these paid between 5 and 10 grand.
I'm not disagreeing just questioning I've seen myself recent. Burris tire on 9 inch wheel instead of 10 inch. Burris tire cut to almost no rubber brand new. My theory was 9 inch rim cut to preferred profile to allow you to run say 20 psi. This increases spring rate reduces contact patch maximize grip then you can cut to get a pound of rubber off. Brand new 33s were just way too much grip i was the only one on 10 inch wheels I was only one on non cuts. I notice their contact patch while rolling on the grid they where up around at least 15 psi. I started off a second off pace locked down to track with only 1 practice. I adjusted according to what I described and got with in .15. Ill will be battling next race. Those results on the stop watch showed me i was in right direction. Everyone was working to free up not tightening why 9 inch rims then. Im asking not telling.
paulkish
old fart
Quickly being good at setup is being able to look at the track and correctly know what it needs everything wise and what is needed when it changes.
At every track there are or should be a few talented racers or setup people who have the experience and talent to do it.
Those who can know and are usually friends with the other racers who have the skills, experience and talent to do it.
They know the race will be about who's driver uses the track the best, makes the least mistakes and who missed the least of what the track needed that race day.
There are even fewer talented, experienced and skilled people who can do it on a national bases.
Some or most often local talent gets big headed about their skill at their particular track and get their butt's kicked when the real talent of the traveling show comes to town.
At every track there are or should be a few talented racers or setup people who have the experience and talent to do it.
Those who can know and are usually friends with the other racers who have the skills, experience and talent to do it.
They know the race will be about who's driver uses the track the best, makes the least mistakes and who missed the least of what the track needed that race day.
There are even fewer talented, experienced and skilled people who can do it on a national bases.
Some or most often local talent gets big headed about their skill at their particular track and get their butt's kicked when the real talent of the traveling show comes to town.
Ted Hamilton
Helmet Painter / Racer
If y'all only using 3" of tire, why not go back to 5" wide tires.....less mass spun - rim, tire...more effective use of tread. Less waste...
The only excuse I see not to is a track friction limitation -- ie. tire can bite 1g per sq. in., track can only bite .25g per sq in., so you have to use a 4x wider contact patch to get back to theoretical 1g...
The only excuse I see not to is a track friction limitation -- ie. tire can bite 1g per sq. in., track can only bite .25g per sq in., so you have to use a 4x wider contact patch to get back to theoretical 1g...
It's about roll speed.
Straightaway speed.
Flexing the tire sidewall takes power.
Flexing the tire tread also takes power.
Flexing 1 sidewall and half, or less, of the tread on a wider tire. takes less power than flexing both sidewalls and the entire tread face of a narrower tire.
Then, there is the ways tires make traction by interacting with the track surface.
Food for thought.
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Ted Hamilton
Helmet Painter / Racer
Perhaps...or perhaps nobody's had the guts to try and it's a speed secret... Nobody "tests" now, monkey-see-monkey-do, so maybe it's the next great speed secret... If I was always trying to free the kart up, I wouldn't want any more grip than I needed...