taping the side cover of a Clone motor?

J

jdoucette

Member
any recommendations on covering up the side covers on clone motors? I hear and see different things. Most People duct tape all but three of the vents on the side cover. why is this? is it safe to this on a longer race or should it be left open?
 
They are taping up the cover to help the engine build heat faster, they perform best at a certain temp. Got to be careful on longer races, i tape mine to where i can easily grab and pull a piece off when needed. You need a tach with a temp lead hooked up so you can monitor the CHT of the engine to know whether you need tape and how much is needed. It depends on several things, including the jetting and timing of the engine. I fully tape them up when qualifying then take off however much i need to get the temp i want for the races.
 
With an air cooled engine, if you're using a CHT, the temperature reading can go and or down with the temperature of the ambient air. On a cold day it reads cold, and on a hot day it reads hot. The CHT tells you very little about what's going on inside the engine.

If you would switch to an EGT, (exhaust gas temperature) gauge, it would tell you what is going on inside the engine, and that's much more important.

For instance; on a cold day, when the air density is most likely going to be higher than on a hot day, you could find you might have to go a little richer on the mixture, versus a hot day. The important thing is to get the EGT as high as possible. Maximum horsepower comes with the maximum EGT.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
I don't understand why so many people want to bad bad mouth Al, especially when he is correct. EGT IS a much more valuable tuning tool then CHT.
 
I think the reason is because even with all that information (EGT and humidity), it would rarely ever make enough of a difference to even have to go up or down one jet size. That's just my thoughts though, I'm no engine expert.

As requested by my motor builder, I run mine 100% taped all the time.

-Andy
 
smlrt97 said:
I think the reason is because even with all that information (EGT and humidity), it would rarely ever make enough of a difference to even have to go up or down one jet size.
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very few are experts Andy, least of all me, but I have studied this subject quite extensively and I have a lot of ideas on the subject. For instance; one point in the air density would call for a 1% change in the air/fuel mixture. With gas and a .039" jet, a five-point change in the air density would call for a .001" change in the jet. From a hot late afternoon, to a cool after sunset evening, could easily change the air density by five points. From a cool early morning to a hot late afternoon could easily change the air density by five points. And on a side note, humidity has little effect on horsepower. That is not my opinion, it's just a fact. A change in temperature, and/or a change in barometric pressure, can have a huge effect, when compared to humidity, on HP.

Anytime anybody tells you "always do this", such as taping up the shroud, be very cautious.

If you had an EGT, and you didn't change anything all day long, and the air density went up and down, (it doesn't always) you would definitely see a change in the EGT temperature. And it would go up and down, because as the air density went up and down, the mixture would go lean and rich causing the drop, or rise, of the EGT. The EGT measures heat, and it doesn't take an expert to know that more heat means more horsepower. Of course there are limits, but it's very easy to stay within those limits using the EGT.

I know, "crazy Al" who listens to him?

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
I often hear people talk about drilling Jets. I cringe! Fuel is something like 700 times denser than air, can you imagine the disruption in flow if there is even the slightest imperfection in the jet bore? I know from experience, that Jets, manufactured and drilled using a Swiss CNC screw machine, have a wide variance in flow capability. Can you imagine what that variance would be using a drill and a handheld drill motor? Even with a drill press!

Believe in what you see and little of what you hear.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
Al, the guy is posting in a beginner forum. I am not saying that what you have stated is wrong or useless information. But I can guarantee you that if the guy is asking why people tape the side cover, that he sure as heck has no idea what the EGT or air density, or an EGT gauge are. Heck I have no idea what they are lol. Don't take it as attacking you, it is just way too in depth for what he was asking.

What Weddle said was correct. Motors run better and create peak horsepower at specified temps. People tape up their motor so that they run mostly in between those designed temps that give peak power.

People fully tape up their motor for qualifying because most don't even reach the wanted temp when only running 3-4 laps. That's all that people tape their motors up for though. Some will fully tape it if that is what's needed to reach the desired temp, some will have it partially taped, and some will have no tape. No need to get out a physics or engineering book for an answer that is so simple to comprehend
 
blh0728 said:
Al, the guy is posting in a beginner forum. I am not saying that what you have stated is wrong or useless information. But I can guarantee you that if the guy is asking why people tape the side cover, that he sure as heck has no idea what the EGT or air density, or an EGT gauge are.
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think about this; many years ago, 1966 to be exact, I had just joined IKF and started getting the magazine. In one of those first magazines was an article by Bystrom about using the EGT. It's so intrigued me, although I didn't really know how much sense it made, and was years before I ever tried it, but it always stuck with me. It was information that I had kind of filled away in my to do file. I was a total novice too, and the information did me no good at the time, but it sure paid off in the end. I still think about that article all time.

You plant the seed and wait for it to grow. I've been doing that for the last 20 years. It has borne fruit. I have received snail mail thanking me for the seeds I have planted.

The karting learning curve is very steep, some parts steeper than others, and the last thing I'm going to do is talk down to people!! Some have said that I confuse people, I think it's presumptuous to think that people are unable to understand. Some won't, some will, and it's not up to me to decide which. Unlike what I've heard about public schools, I'm not going to speak down to the least common denominator. There are people here that are very good at doing that, just not me.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
Al while your post are very in depth and you seem to be very well educated in at least the engineering and physics fields sometimes your post do not come across as a friendly sharing knowledge post. They are more like I know this subject and how it works down to the level of elements bonding with one another so im going to explain it in a way to make me feel smarter to impress this guy while sharing the information. As a engineering student I value your post as they are very in depth and allow me to apply some of what im learning to the world of karting however with a retail background I would say you would struggle with integrating your knowledge with work around other humans if you talked this wayface to face. Nobody likes a know it all. I know my my grammar and punctuation is bad because I am typing from a mobile device. I am not trying to attack you or your post just suggesting you go about it a little differently if you do not want to rub people the wrong way. Ultimately you are trying to share your knowledge you have earned with others so why do it in a manner that is much more complicated than what is really needed for the question. Sometimes it feels like you sre almost attacking the person requesting help due to there lack of knowledge in a field where you are well studied.Once again I am not trying to start anything so I will leave my comments at these I just hope if you are really trying to help karters that you will find a way to reword your post into a more positive constructive message .
 
racer29 said:
They are more like I know this subject and how it works down to the level of elements bonding with one another so im going to explain it in a way to make me feel smarter to impress this guy while sharing the information.
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I'm sure there is a certain amount of "ego boost" in this, "sharing of information", but what's wrong with that? The "ego boost" is part of the fun I get out of sharing this information. I feel it's very presumptuous of you to think I do it only to make myself feel smarter. If I was smart, I would think I'd be rich. And I'm not. I know some things and I enjoy sharing them. I can't see how that could be bad! Could it be that the green eyed monster is lurking.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
Al you and I both know that being rich doesn't necessarily make an individual smart and vic versa. I know plenty of extremely educated individuals who live below the poverty line by choice. I don't know what you mean by a green eyed monster but I assure you I am not trying to antagonize you im just saying your obviously very intelligent in certain fields. You can share that knowledge (which I know you enjoy due to the amount of time you spend spreading that knowledge) without making it so hard to understand for someone starting out. I like reading your post from a discussion side as you bring up many points that are relevant however many times you do so in a way to antagonize another individuals knowledge that has not been learned from a book but years of testing. Many people know something to be true without knowing why or how it is true. Sometimes its easier to let it be that way rather than arguing about who is more correct in stating a similar fact (not necessarily in this thread). I wish you the best and hope to have intellectual discussions in the future over ideas especially with your CAD/CNC business as that is a field of machining I have yet to be exposed to.
 
racer29 said:
Many people know something to be true without knowing why or how it is true. Sometimes its easier to let it be that way rather than arguing about who is more correct in stating a similar fact (not necessarily in this thread). I wish you the best and hope to have intellectual discussions in the future over ideas especially with your CAD/CNC business as that is a field of machining I have yet to be exposed to.
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I bought my first mill and lathe in 1979. Had no clue how to work them. But I learned. In 1990 the company I was working for bought a CNC mill. With software. Surfcam. I spent seven days a week, 12 hours a day learning that software and CNC machine. I loved every minute of it. I love two things, making things and working on a computer. This was the perfect match. I spent the next 15 years, before retirement, is a CNC machinist. All self-taught. I'd like to say it wasn't easy, but it's being so fun made it easy.

My whole life I've had a problem getting along with people because I have no social skill.

If you can't explain to me, "why or how it's true" that leaves me in a bad place. All my life I've had a lot of trouble with, "because that's the way it is". My mother used the term, "because" all my life. And it appears to me that those that use that statement, (or something to that effect) don't like it that I won't accept it. It seems they appear to want me to accept it, just because they said it. I'm the bad guy for questioning things said. Like I've told several people here, questions are welcome. It's in my sig..

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
Gee, I've read a few posts of Yours over time and You sound like a real "Great" Guy . Thanks for all Your comments , I respect all Your words .
 
1fastyammy said:
I haven't seen any rules that don't allow you to run an EGT on a clone. EGT is the only way to go.

Frankie
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it's always nice to hear when somebody agrees with me on the EGT. Problem is I hear just the opposite most of the time.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
 
I use to run cht but on a cold day you will be way off on your jetting. When my son was running in purple plate 8 or so years ago we switched to EGT and never looked back. Our tire program and setup was spot on. So we needed just a little bit more to win. EGT helped out no more guessing on jets and taping up the engine all the time. I run Yamaha and UAS so all I use is EGT I have never stuck an engine yet due to carb tuning. Only engine I stuck was due to a gross jet malfunction in a Mikuni carb.

The reason they don't go to EGT is because they don't know it and don't want to get out of the comfort Zone.

Frankie
 
The original poster didn't ask if CHT or EGT was a more preferable source of information or which is a better tool to use in gathering information. He simply ask why do people tape the side cover. And of, it's not surprising that SOMEONE had to make the post their on platform to base an argument.

The answer to that is just as Zach mentioned. Getting a head temp reading has nothing to do with trying to figure out what is going on inside the engine. It's just a number people look to achieve in accordance with their engine builder. Constantly turning such simple questions into these ****ing contest is stupid. STUPID!!!!!!!!!! This site used be a great and valuable source of information. Now days certain people make it not so much so.
 
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