Tire temps

DRS29

New member
tire temps

I have wondered this myself and i never got a straight answer. Some people have said that tire temps only work for asphalt.
 

alvin l nunley

Site Supporter
Anybody take tire temps
What temps are we looking for?
I don’t believe there is an answer to that question. Maybe, if you knew someone that was running your exact same setup, and both drivers drove the exact same style, you might get an answer to that question, and that would depend on the methods used and the device used.
As always I have a spreadsheet for excel. It will not tell you what to do, or what is best, but it will do all the calculations for you.
You need a device to take the temps and a computer for recording them. What is best is found by comparing your lap times to the recorded tire temps. When you achieve your best lap times, the resulting tire temps are probably the best.
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
 

fstjohn

New member
outside temp plays a factor, if below 60-70 we usualy wont take. what we look for is rear +6-+10 deg higher than front, right side same as rear, and cross +1 to 0. you can also use temps for air pressure ie center hotter than outside by 10% or more to much air and just opposite for low. con also use temps to adj camber. PRC use to have videos that can explain better. We run dirt.
 

JIM D

New member
There are or were guages out there that you could take readings when you get of the track it cal. The differences [dam i sold the dam thing] just useing my hands now from any tire going from the inside [ toward frame to the outside the temps should be about equal and each tire will have different temps a cold tires is not so good lol! This does help in makeing adjustments the guage i had had a probe on it which had you probe in 3 different areas fron inside to out then it gave you the avg. And or temps yep it works on dirt or what ever there you go have fun !
 

Ltg

Member
On dirt I don't recommend tire temps for these reasons:
- The tires run very cool to start with so temp increases will be smaller making it harder to glean information.
- Combined with the lower temps, most can't get the temps until several minutes after the kart stops navigating the track at top speed which also tends to degrade the data.

In a situation where the tires ran hotter and/or the temps could be gathered more quickly then they will be useful.

Todd
www.dynamicsofspeed.com
 

JIM D

New member
Thinking thats why i try to get to my sons kart asap to put my hands on all 4 tires to give me a idea of whats going on and then start checking on other things dont know how or with all this prep stuff that is going if the temp thing does work or not but temps do affect some things just haveing fun !
 

msquared

Member
I agree with Todd, If you are going to use them on dirt it is critical to get them as soon as the kart comes off the track.

In practice I always want who I am helping to come off the track before most so I can get good data.

NEVER, EVER, NEVER USE AN IR GUN!

Mike McCarty
Chassis Manual (Only $17.95)
www.kartcalc.com
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
Thinking thats why i try to get to my sons kart asap to put my hands on all 4 tires to give me a idea of whats going on and then start checking on other things dont know how or with all this prep stuff that is going if the temp thing does work or not but temps do affect some things just haveing fun !
tires are suppose to get warm, and with setups, driving style's, track surfaces becasue a tire got a little warmer than the other really tells you nothing, lap times/ engine temps are your best indicator, thats why a tach that provides that info is the best tool you can own
 

alvin l nunley

Site Supporter
tires are suppose to get warm, and with setups, driving style's, track surfaces becasue a tire got a little warmer than the other really tells you nothing, lap times/ engine temps are your best indicator, thats why a tach that provides that info is the best tool you can own
I think the rest of the racing world would disagree with you. Why else would they go to so much trouble checking tire temps. F1 comes to mind. Watch a broadcast this year and you'll see how much trouble they go to mounting infrared cameras to watch the heat patterns on the tires. Of course, this is the broadcast team doing it, but I'm sure each race team has their own way to check tire temps.
Engine temps, if you're speaking of CHT, are almost useless. Of course, that's in my opinion. Now if you're speaking of EGT temps, I would agree with you 100%.
IMHO, the more information you gather, the better. Information is only useless if you don't know how to use it.
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
 

JIM D

New member
Might not tell you nothing xxx40 your right ! Pro. Cus you put all that p crap on there lol! Thats what you know about he he oh well like someone said more than one way to get there heat in tires dont mean anything what a joke !
 

msquared

Member
I agree with with......... a lot of what Al said. CHT is a useful mertic. Most I'll bet do not use EGT and are missing a real gem.

I can tell you for a fact tire temps work. I have used them effectively at 34 degrees of outside temp.

I have used a stack data logger with IR sensors and what a tale they tell.

The tires are the connection between the track and the kart itself. It has a tale to tell, you just have to know how to read the story.

Why not use an IR? Lets say a kart is loose, using an IR device would show the kart is tight (pushing) because the surface of the tire is really hot because it is sliding. That makes the surface of the tire really hot but deep in the tread of tire it is cool. The tire seems really hot but you have no AP gain. The tire is not gripping. If the tire were gripping, it would be hot deep in the core and therefore you would have AP gain, where as if it were sliding it would have no AP gain, be cool in the core, but hot on the surface.

Hell, even your shoe soles tell a story and guess what? They even generate heat when you walk.

Most people have no clue as to why you run so much cross on dirt but very little on pavement., where on pavement it is more balanced and even on syrup indoor tracks.

The reason is on dirt the grip between the LR and RR is imbalanced.

On dirt, I always measure the moisture content of the racing groove between the RR and LR. More weight equals more grip in a tire. Therefore, if the track has less grip you have to balance not only rears but also the grip the RF can handle compared the drive the LR is giving. Tire temps will tell that story.

If your driver comes off the track and the kart sits for a while the heat disipates in the tire and is useless.

No matter what data you collect and use you must repeat the results meaning no matter what you are measuring just do it at the same time or you end up playing with yourself!

Mike McCarty
Chassis Manual (Only $17.95)
www.kartcalc.com
 
EGT is the way to go. I race 2cycle and since I went with EGT I have never stuck an engine. I am faster on the track now than I use to be. I checked my temps when I raced in FL. On a hot day it doesn't take much to smoke a tire if your setup isn't right. I can tell you that my left rear never got hot.

Frankie

IR= inferred temp gun. Point and pull trigger it tells temp on the surface of objects.
 
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Bergh223

Member
Thank you for that point about the IR gun. Never even crossed my mind. It will be used for track temp only from this point forward. Thank you gentleman.
 

strong08

New member
When taking tire temps and doing the math by hand how do calculate the cross number such as the +0.2 or -0.2. I ha e watch the videos that harril Wiggins did on the top secrect videos club I understand how he got all the other numbers but I can't figure out how you get the cross number.
 

Mr South 59

New member
You take the temp of 6 spots on the two tires, LF/RR or RF/LR and divide them by 6 and get the average.

Average temp of RF and LR = ???

Average temp of LF and RR = ???

Which one is +??

You don't need to worry about the -??. You will need to only worry about the +??. That is all any digital tire pyrometer box will show you.
 

nate52

New member
I use tire temps from an ir gun.pretty successfully.but as mike said when a kart is loose it will fool you using a ir gun.(cleared alot up there)i worry about getting the kart not to slide any tire first.(push or loose) then use the temps to fine tune.made a world of difference In my finishes.
 
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