Rob25Racing
Member
I am rebuilding an animal motor. I would like know is a torque plate really needed when honing the cylinder. Thanks for any feed back.
Torque Plate Question
- Thread starter Rob25Racing
- Start date
steve baker
Moderator
We have testing both methods, with plate and without and see no difference. The head bolts are in a location in the block that have no affect on cylinder wall distortion.
Steve
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
All this is very surprising to me. Knowing how much difference torque plates make when honing a 2 cycle, it's surprising to hear that they make no difference on 4 strokes.
Something that surprised me was what happened when I heated a Mac before honing. I never hear of anybody doing it. It makes a huge difference. Not that you can heat the block exactly as it gets heated while running, but you can get a lot closer than with no heating at all.
Something that surprised me was what happened when I heated a Mac before honing. I never hear of anybody doing it. It makes a huge difference. Not that you can heat the block exactly as it gets heated while running, but you can get a lot closer than with no heating at all.
Steve Vermeer
Member
sorry guys,old habits I guess,I use torque plates on everything including heads when doing a valve job.
steve baker
Moderator
Alvin,
I think its not a 4 cycle or 2 cycle independent parameter. My believe is that it's all based on cylinder wall distortion that occurs during operation. Cylinder designs very from engine to engine types and some designs are more prone to distortion when firing pressures and heat are applied. I studied the Animal years ago at room temps and also at elevated temps during honing with and without the torque plate and again did not see any difference using the torque plate or not.
Steve
I think its not a 4 cycle or 2 cycle independent parameter. My believe is that it's all based on cylinder wall distortion that occurs during operation. Cylinder designs very from engine to engine types and some designs are more prone to distortion when firing pressures and heat are applied. I studied the Animal years ago at room temps and also at elevated temps during honing with and without the torque plate and again did not see any difference using the torque plate or not.
Steve
Jimbo
You can fool some of the people some of the time
Let me describe my honing machine and process.
My fixture has a 1" thick aluminum plate that gets bolted to the top of the cylinder where the head would normally be. The bolts get torqued to the same number that i use for the head bolts when i put the head on.
This assembly is then lowered into the honing cabinet.
Normally, the honing process takes quite a while since i wait long enough between measuring and honing for the cylinder to cool back down to ambient temp before honing again. You might be surprise how a little bit of honing can raise the temp of the cylinder and affect the measurement.
After the last honing session i will wait for some time to make sure any heat generated from honing has left the building before i make the final measurement.
My fixture has a 1" thick aluminum plate that gets bolted to the top of the cylinder where the head would normally be. The bolts get torqued to the same number that i use for the head bolts when i put the head on.
This assembly is then lowered into the honing cabinet.
Normally, the honing process takes quite a while since i wait long enough between measuring and honing for the cylinder to cool back down to ambient temp before honing again. You might be surprise how a little bit of honing can raise the temp of the cylinder and affect the measurement.
After the last honing session i will wait for some time to make sure any heat generated from honing has left the building before i make the final measurement.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Like Steve V. - out of habit, I still use a torque plate, but like Steve B. I have not seen a difference either.
Great explanation Steve B. -- it's not a matter of 4 cycle vs 2 cycle needing a torque plate or not -- the flatheads sure need them! The animal head bolts are a long way away from the cylinder and there's a lot of material surrounding the cylinder -- that's the reason I figure that the torque makes little difference/distortion of the cylinder liner.
--
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Great explanation Steve B. -- it's not a matter of 4 cycle vs 2 cycle needing a torque plate or not -- the flatheads sure need them! The animal head bolts are a long way away from the cylinder and there's a lot of material surrounding the cylinder -- that's the reason I figure that the torque makes little difference/distortion of the cylinder liner.
--
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com