Two questions on tire preperation

paulkish

old fart
The first is easy and I'm hoping for yes and no answers.

I realize Simple Green cleans, does it also physically soften a tire in a chemical way?

_________________
Second question:

I know you can grow and shrink a tire by heating and cooling it, under specific circumstances.

Tires also grow out on the track because of how fast they spin. Can mechanical things be done to a tire off the track, without chemicals being applied to either external or internal surfaces, to alter the amount they grow on the track.
 
Havent seen it soften, just open up the pours of the tire, over time it will dry a tire out, and will ruin the prep you put on, after all it is a DEGREASER
 
The reason I'm asking is I have found out it's common practice to both clean and soak, hold via Saran Wrap etc,. or keep Simple Green on tires for an extended period of time. Those that do, do not consider it beyond the rules and intent, because it's just there to clean the tire.

Does it really just clean the tire? I already got one answer saying it's doing something else.

Would you consider what I described as prepping a tire and beyond the intent of a no prepping or altering rule?

___________________________

Still looking to learn how to effect tire growth out on the track too.

Thank you very much for the reply, XXX#40.

paul
 
Like the gentleman above said it cleans and opens the pores of a tire and after repeated use or a soak then it will pull the natural oils in the rubber itself out of the tire. I use and encourage my customers to use simple green during the summer months when its hlt and the tracks art hard and dry and you actually need to pull some of the natural oils out of the tire. But when its cooler and the weather changes you need to use something that won't pull those oils out of tire because you will need them on low bite tracks during the cooler weather. I make and sell my own tire cleaner that I use during this time and I know trac tac makes one as well. As far as question 2 goes I don't run a tire without prep on the inside of it. The best way I have found to size the tire during this process is after you put prep inside tire and are ready to roll it, I take a tape measure and go around the tire andthen pump it up until it measures what I want it to and that's where I roll them at. They usually stay within and 1/8" which is something you can easily work with from there. When you prep a tire on the inside the prep actually gets inthe belts or cords of the tire. So whatever your tire measures when you roll it is usually about where its gonna wind up when your done with it. I hope this helps. If you have anymore questions I would be more than happy to help. Good luck and God bless.


Rob Peacock Racing Services

MASTER GRIP PREPS

REAL DEAL TIRES
 
Saturday at Eldora I watched for what LR tires were doing. I had previous been told Hooser LR's were non growth tires and the RR's were not. Being the LR didn't grow, when a track slicks up it should be next to impossible to take stagger out as needed, for slick track conditions. What I observed was a dramatic difference between cars in LR tire growth. The troubling thing was all the fast cars seemed to also be the ones which got tire growth out of the LR, almost to the point of it matching up with the RR. After watching I began to think how tire size matched up at entry to turn 1 and beyond was possible a matter of how the turn was taken. But I didn't expect to see such a dramatic difference in LR tire diameter's. I know occasionally they do test tires and I suspect they did not at that race. Because of what I observed, I came here to ask how you could cause a non growth tire to grow so much. Because tire tech is so infrequent I suspect many would prep. But there isn't anyone who would want to get caught chemically treating tires. I already know it's generally accepted that Simple Green ain't going to get you thrown out of anywhere. I'm wondering if side walls could be mechanically weakened or if side walls etc., maybe could be injected with prep instead of a surface application. I already figure there using the widest rim allowed on the RR and the narrowest on the LR to try to even up tire growth. How could you cause growth? I'm thinking there ain't no way early on in time trials, even with drivers running it into the corner differently, I'm going to see both rear tires look pretty much identical in size. Another thought I had about it was maybe what I'm seeing is most all the weight off the LR and on the RR. It would make the LR able to grow easily, while the RR because of weight can only grow after it comes off the ground. But I don't think that's it because I really didn't see the RR tires appear to be compressed on the bottom. There's a good possibility that it is I just couldn't see the compression. The interesting thing if it is I could not see the compression is with that the fast cars to be that way, the drivers had to also be on the throttle differently. That's a real possibility.

anyway, thanks for the responses and I hope there are more. Yes this is a karting site and I asked because of what I observed on cars, but kart tires do grow too just like cars. If you don't believe it make it a point to watch left rears from your local track infield and you'll be supprised how you can see both the left end of the axle unloading and tire growth. If you then put some stuff together, I think you'll also notice those who unload the left end of the axle the most, are not necessarly the fastest on the track. They can be, but they are not necessarly the fastest.

all stuff needs to work the same to be fast, but all stuff does not have the same ability to work as needed
 
Are you trying to say people were running zero stagger at eldora? They make 88's 90's 92's. So you can run from 0 up to 6-8inches. i dont believe anyone at eldora was running 0 stagger... If by growing you mean get taller when the throttle is applied i would say it happens to some extent but i dont believe its enough to see and i think it would be tough to get a good view on a dirt car going in circles. The reason i think it does happen is because when you get a rubbered up track usually only the center of the tire is wore, no matter how low of air you had it will take the center right out of the tire.
Saturday at Eldora I watched for what LR tires were doing. I had previous been told Hooser LR's were non growth tires and the RR's were not. Being the LR didn't grow, when a track slicks up it should be next to impossible to take stagger out as needed, for slick track conditions. What I observed was a dramatic difference between cars in LR tire growth. The troubling thing was all the fast cars seemed to also be the ones which got tire growth out of the LR, almost to the point of it matching up with the RR. After watching I began to think how tire size matched up at entry to turn 1 and beyond was possible a matter of how the turn was taken. But I didn't expect to see such a dramatic difference in LR tire diameter's. I know occasionally they do test tires and I suspect they did not at that race. Because of what I observed, I came here to ask how you could cause a non growth tire to grow so much. Because tire tech is so infrequent I suspect many would prep. But there isn't anyone who would want to get caught chemically treating tires. I already know it's generally accepted that Simple Green ain't going to get you thrown out of anywhere. I'm wondering if side walls could be mechanically weakened or if side walls etc., maybe could be injected with prep instead of a surface application. I already figure there using the widest rim allowed on the RR and the narrowest on the LR to try to even up tire growth. How could you cause growth? I'm thinking there ain't no way early on in time trials, even with drivers running it into the corner differently, I'm going to see both rear tires look pretty much identical in size. Another thought I had about it was maybe what I'm seeing is most all the weight off the LR and on the RR. It would make the LR able to grow easily, while the RR because of weight can only grow after it comes off the ground. But I don't think that's it because I really didn't see the RR tires appear to be compressed on the bottom. There's a good possibility that it is I just couldn't see the compression. The interesting thing if it is I could not see the compression is with that the fast cars to be that way, the drivers had to also be on the throttle differently. That's a real possibility.

anyway, thanks for the responses and I hope there are more. Yes this is a karting site and I asked because of what I observed on cars, but kart tires do grow too just like cars. If you don't believe it make it a point to watch left rears from your local track infield and you'll be supprised how you can see both the left end of the axle unloading and tire growth. If you then put some stuff together, I think you'll also notice those who unload the left end of the axle the most, are not necessarly the fastest on the track. They can be, but they are not necessarly the fastest.

all stuff needs to work the same to be fast, but all stuff does not have the same ability to work as needed
 
"If by growing you mean get taller when the throttle is applied i would say it happens to some extent but i dont believe its enough to see and i think it would be tough to get a good view on a dirt car going in circles."

That's exactly what I mean by growing when the throttle is applied.

You may not say, but I will tell you they grow like dragster tires.

The reason I sat in Section H at Eldora, is to be able to watch tires. When at the Grove, I'll often be inside the track at the entrance to turn 3 watching left rears compressed and then uncompress, for the exact same reason.

Selinsgrove I like to watch both entry to turn 3 and watch front tire presentation half way to the end of turn one. Watching there you can very easily see how RR's work and it's especially telling there when RR's become over worked. Sure you can watch fronts to see about counter steering, but seeing tire presentation up front is much more important. Netting it out sure it's possible to watch tires on an oval dirt track, car and kart. Under the right conditions with a kart early out on a somewhat still damp track, you can actually see how rear tires load and unload. Watching tires IMHO, is the most important thing in seeing and understanding what happening out on the track. Learnerville this past WoO race for the first time I was able to see rear tires unload and load at the end of the back stretch, going into 3, just before turn in. Watch for steam from tires, watch for dirt thrown up from tires, watch for dirt being carried all around the tire, watch for when tires change color, watch for how fronts are presented and guess if presentation is wrong how many laps it will be until the car or kart turns into a total pig. Sure you can see what tires are doing.

List from one to ten or what ever, all the things I mentioned. Next time your at the track take your list out and make it a point to look for each and every one. I'll bet you come back here and say...


... different
 
Simple Green will do more than what you think, Hot water with a touch of dish soap or just plain water should be used when your just wanting to get the tires clean!
 
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