What does right rear lead do

Skidude said:
Yes, but your geometry is now off. In relation to squareness to the axle, the front end geometry needs to be reset. For squareness, the LF would now be toed out, your RF is less than 1/16 also. That’s assuming your Ackerman is 90* to both tie rods and checking toe in relation to the axle.
Click to expand...
Didn't look back before I finished my post started hours ago and hit send, but looks like here's another Gent a lot Smarter than me looking at it from my point of view , doesn't mean were right, but it helps me think we got a better chance .
 
racing promotor said:
Didn't look back before I finished my post started hours ago and hit send, but looks like here's another Gent a lot Smarter than me looking at it from my point of view , doesn't mean were right, but it helps me think we got a better chance .
Click to expand...
Probably not smarter, but on the same page.
 
racing promotor said:
I think the same provided you only change ONE side of the rear AXLE , are we both not thinking right ?? I feel little better now because BRAD here is a lot SMARTER than I am !!
Click to expand...
No. No one accuses me of being smart. You are just getting close to what I get to do every day. I wish I had half the understanding of karts that you and some others on here do. Watch and learn is my motto.
 
Petty Race Engines said:
No debating or arguing… the fact of the matter is, you made changes and got faster, make notes… good notes and review them regularly, this is the key to success ! BTW trust me, you can NOT remember all the information that you learn, I’m second guessing or over thinking all the time 35yrs in the sport
Click to expand...
Just this season after 20 yrs did I figure out WHY in the End 5 different people come to me at any given race struggling for various reasons, from gearing, to prep, to tires, asking 5 completely different questions and in the end I say I'm safe to say 95 % of the time the info I give them is pretty close to spot on which ends up fixing there issue.
Plus have 2 Rookie drivers that I've taken on for that season as racing for me, and there always running say top 3, with a pretty good winning % more wins than 3rd place finishes .
Yet my Nephew now 25 yrs old I can't get it right even 50 % of the time, and I finally figured out at the very end of 2023 season I think, Hope WHY that's happening .
WITH EVERYONE ELSE in the END I NEVER SECOND GUESS MYSELF and NO ONE else other than the person asking is involved in the conversation, so that's why I end up NEVER SECOND GUESSING MYSELF.
Where as when if it Involves my Nephew I end up more people are always involved, plus my Nephew so in the end I end up second guessing MYSELF and go with what they think. And I totally AGREE with K.I.S.S .

With that being said, some advise to you Sir STOP OVER THINKING K.I.S.S. , and NEVER SECOND GUESS YOURSELF in the END !!
 
I understand what y’all are saying, but I don’t set toe off a rear axle that is not square in the car. I use toe plates, an old accu toe gauge, string, or a homemade toe bar. So my toe measurements don’t change with what happens at the rear. On big cars when I have one of the rear tires forward or back I run a string parallel with the frame rail, center my drag link, and get my front tires straight with the string. Right, wrong, indifferent, it’s the way I have done it for 25 years.
 
Wouldn’t setting the front end off a rear axle that’s not square essentially take away the rear steer you were trying to introduce in the first place? Wouldn’t that just cause the frame to run crooked? Maybe I’m way off
 
There's only 1 thing in a LTO racer that is square and it is where ever and how ever the axle is located in the LTO racer.

Everything else in and about the rest of your LTO racer is there to enhance and/or use the rear axle.

How well you choose to use or not use the solid rear axle with stagger then becomes the result of need, your understanding of how stuff works, experience and your skill level.
 
Last edited:
Over 20 years ago we were able to cause our RR tire on our kart to physically steer to the right to help us around the corners the same as a zero turn lawn mower of today steers by turning the RF to the left and the RR to the right.

But that would not be fast today with what's being done today to actually get use and function out of a solid staggered rear axle.
 
The point being made is the corner weights are also being set based on the toe setting (and steering locked) with 1 front tire square to the axle.

Moving one end of the axle changes the fact that the 1tire is no longer square to the axle.

Just moving the lf toe out 1/16 changes the scale numbers.

This is only important if you are trying to use someone else's numbers. Need to remember that lto karts are asymmetrical.

Just another part of chasing your tail that is scaling a lto kart.
 
Hobbs said:
Wouldn’t setting the front end off a rear axle that’s not square essentially take away the rear steer you were trying to introduce in the first place? Wouldn’t that just cause the frame to run crooked? Maybe I’m way off
Click to expand...
No rear steer in a fixed rear axle, you're just changing the path the rear tire takes to the front, and how and when it is loaded/unloaded.
On a kart you are supposed to square the fronts off the rear axle.
 
XXX#40 said:
No rear steer in a fixed rear axle, you're just changing the path the rear tire takes to the front, and how and when it is loaded/unloaded.
On a kart you are supposed to square the fronts off the rear axle.
Click to expand...
I would Think the Wheels aren't bolted to the FRAME , last I checked there bolted to the Rear Axle .
 
I am trying to think this through. If rear lead/lag is introduced to the kart it will make the kart "crab". If the front wheels are set to the frame they will need to be turned parallel to the rear axle to go straight. This will not be the angle set in the shop to the frame, it will be the same as set if the rear axle is used to set toe. If the frame is used and the steering turned some to go straight the Ackerman will affect the toe out setting. Now I am guessing it is very little, but we are looking for little gains.
 
For an interesting test, square and lock toe to rear axle with camber properly set. Scale kart.


Move one end of rear axle 1/4 inch. Reset toe lock to square with rear axle, leaving toe setting as it was.
Scale kart. Check camber and toe.

You will be amazed how much changes.
 
95 shaw said:
For an interesting test, square and lock toe to rear axle with camber properly set. Scale kart.


Move one end of rear axle 1/4 inch. Reset toe lock to square with rear axle, leaving toe setting as it was.
Scale kart. Check camber and toe.

You will be amazed how much changes.
Click to expand...
I was planning on trying some test like that, but it is too cold right now and I have to fix my sons washing machine that is in the way first. Hopefully next week I can start playing with some thoughts on the scales
 
Surveyor said:
I am trying to think this through. If rear lead/lag is introduced to the kart it will make the kart "crab". If the front wheels are set to the frame they will need to be turned parallel to the rear axle to go straight. This will not be the angle set in the shop to the frame, it will be the same as set if the rear axle is used to set toe. If the frame is used and the steering turned some to go straight the Ackerman will affect the toe out setting. Now I am guessing it is very little, but we are looking for little gains.
Click to expand...
About 5 yrs ago I first noticed that crab ( YAW ) turned on Either XFINITY race, or CUP race and the cars were coming down one of the tracks with a long straight on an Oval track of course, and all the cars in the race were crab walking, but the front 3 at the time were YAW to the Extreme , after that noticed the Trucks it seems to show up more with the trucks , Now I'm not smart enough to know with an actual suspension how much more this effects the cars VS karts remembering the Karts went from Straight to Off Set . But do know they all only turn left when racing Ovals and they spend a whole lot more $$$$$$$ testing than Karts.
 
Surveyor said:
I am trying to think this through. If rear lead/lag is introduced to the kart it will make the kart "crab". If the front wheels are set to the frame they will need to be turned parallel to the rear axle to go straight. This will not be the angle set in the shop to the frame, it will be the same as set if the rear axle is used to set toe. If the frame is used and the steering turned some to go straight the Ackerman will affect the toe out setting. Now I am guessing it is very little, but we are looking for little gains.
Click to expand...
Also Keep in mind Karts went from straight frames to off set.
 
95 shaw said:
The point being made is the corner weights are also being set based on the toe setting (and steering locked) with 1 front tire square to the axle.

Moving one end of the axle changes the fact that the 1tire is no longer square to the axle.

Just moving the lf toe out 1/16 changes the scale numbers.

This is only important if you are trying to use someone else's numbers. Need to remember that lto karts are asymmetrical.

Just another part of chasing your tail that is scaling a lto kart.
Click to expand...
Hey where ya been, Hope all is well !!
Now guy's we got a REALLY SMART guy involved that also has some COMMON SENSE !!
 
I think the biggest confusion on this topic is calling it lead or lag. It's rear tracking, lead or lag technically can't apply to a solid mounted axle. Especially now since most Square and toe off the rear axle. If we had active suspension then it can become lead or lag again.

(Edit) this is in response to the above conversation about squaring off the rear axle then changing rear tracking without resquaring.

The static numbers change, but once the front is unlocked and rear tracking takes over the numbers will still be slightly different. But, the front wheels will self center and still produce nearly the same effect as if it was resquared. But, since the numbers will be slightly different than when resquared the results won't be identical. Is it measurable, yes. Can you tell a huge difference in the seat, not according to some drivers, others say yes. Is one right or wrong? I don't know, I prefer to resquare after a rear track change
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top