Track Tac

what slows YOU down?

paulkish

paulkish

old fart
Yep you accelerate down the straight, except for all that darn speed you scuff off because of your stagger. ... :)

... and then the dreaded corner you know's going to slow you down like a snail. You get past the slow down part, that is if you can believe you ever have to slow down, nawww you really never slow down do you? But then it's fun again and put your foot to it, where? before half way, half way, sooner or later? ...

But I'm not asking about when you slow down, your answer will be never. And I'm not asking you about when you put your petal to the metal, it's always there anyway ain't it, why sure it is.

My questions about if you do happen to care about saving momentum built up on the straight, just in case or if you do happen to have to slow down somewhere to be able to accelerate, how do you slow down? The question is during the slow down you still have to turn don't you? While saving all that momentum, what slows you down more, wasting all that momentum, the fronts or the backs?

You have to turn, while slowing down is it more important to get your turning from the fronts because they will be able to roll the best while turning or the backs for the same reason.

Which will grid off the least momentum, turning turn in to apex with the fronts, the backs or both? And if you choose both, should they do equal work? Or do you feel the back can't possibly help you turn?

I'm only thinking about 'fast' asking this. To be fast you have to use your stuff in a better way then others, which way is the best? How do you know which end is turning you the most and which end is scuffing off the most speed? Is it possible to tell? Does anyone even care? ... :)

Oh yeah, this all about all except the "inserted arc" part, ain't it? ... :)
 
steering the front wheels will scrub speed faster than the rears (in my opinion)...your fighting several inertial and gravitational factors once into the turn and you have to over come and compensate for them....setting up for the turn just as you enter the final part of the straight, determining where your braking points are and how hard you have to brake, when you are going to turn the steering wheel to set for the corner, how much more you have to turn once into the turn, the release of the turn to straighten the steering back to enter the straight....at least in my mind, your thinking of more than just accelerate, brake, turn, repeat....

I looked at it a couple of years ago and ended up breaking the corner down into five segments...

1. end of straight and preparing for corner entry. this is where I was looking for other karts that would interrupt or change my line throughout the corner.
2. corner entry. thinking about other karts and where my brake point is and how fast I'm approaching it.
3. mid corner. is my braking point to soon or too late? depending on this point would determine if I'm entering too fast and having to stab the brakes harder and really slowing down or am I braking way too soon and scrubbing more speed thus slowing my corner exit and entry to the straight.
4. corner exit. where am I rolling back into the throttle? too soon and I risk spinning, too late and I'm passed by turtles or worse, little old ladies with walkers...all depends on point #3....
5. exit to straightaway. rolling back into the throttle harder and letting the kart drift out naturally versus forcing it. picking up the throttle here is where I want to stab it and keep the momentum up. slow thru points 2, 3 and 4 will affect my exit onto the straight.

for me, looking at a corner this way helped in keeping my momentum up and working with the forces of nature that want to throw me off the track. good rubber to hold me in the corner, good braking to slow without locking up the rear (sometimes I wish we had a brake bias adjuster!), and rapid throttle response to keep the speed up. to me that's making a corner work with you.

my thoughts on scrubbing speed? you need it....you need it setting for corner entry and holding in the turn. you don't want your tires so stuck to the track that your too tight through the turn or too loose that your fighting to hold it down into the corner. both of which scrubs massive speed.

you have to look at the entire corner on limiting scrub and maximizing speed thru the corner. you want to scrub off speed to a certain degree to aid in braking and corner set-up, but you have to limit that scrub in the corner to get that run off onto the straight....

does anyone even care? I do....you can be a literal rocket on rails down the straight and it doesn't matter a fart in a skillet if you can't make the corner. likewise, you may be able to sustain speed throughout the corner and beat every one in the turn, but can't get out of your own way on the straight.

just my thoughts!!!
 
What slows me down is the kart ahead of me, yeah always the same guy, that I keep hitting when I'm trying to pass him. It happened a bunch of times last year!
 
the kart ahead of me, serious slow down!!! not to mention that it sucks if it's the same guy time after time!
 
paulkish said:
My good stuff folder, just gained an entry. ... :)
Click to expand...

I'm confused Paul. Is the good stuff folder good or bad. Or does it just depend on what it is or the implied sarcasm that may or may not be there. :)

P.S. I was burping last night at practice. I could flat foot it but I had to let the kart go much wider down the straight if I did. Of course straight is a relative term. It is more of a different, larger, ever changing, undefinable curve that can be changed at will by you as the driver. It keeps you constantly searching for a line that "might" be a little faster.

P.S. again. I try to tell young new drivers that sometimes you have to go slower to be faster! Control Consistency.....
 
M.D.racing said:
I'm confused Paul. Is the good stuff folder good or bad. Or does it just depend on what it is or the implied sarcasm that may or may not be there. :)

P.S. I was burping last night at practice. I could flat foot it but I had to let the kart go much wider down the straight if I did. Of course straight is a relative term. It is more of a different, larger, ever changing, undefinable curve that can be changed at will by you as the driver. It keeps you constantly searching for a line that "might" be a little faster.

P.S. again. I try to tell young new drivers that sometimes you have to go slower to be faster! Control Consistency.....
Click to expand...

"Good Stuff" a definition: That screw driver I used at work for over 40 years, is "Good Stuff". Grandma's old afghan she knitted for me when I was a kid, is "Good Stuff". Stuff folks write on here which seems to make a lot of sense to me and fits into my thoughts like a glove is "Good Stuff".

What is your "Good Stuff" may vary from mine.

Everything my big brother has is "Good Stuff", because he takes care of or fixes all his stuff. When his stuff gets old, it just gains character, when my stuff gets old, it becomes physical junk not worth fixing or ... not worth listening to or reading about. ... :)
 
paulkish said:
"Good Stuff" a definition: That screw driver I used at work for over 40 years, is "Good Stuff". Grandma's old afghan she knitted for me when I was a kid, is "Good Stuff". Stuff folks write on here which seems to make a lot of sense to me and fits into my thoughts like a glove is "Good Stuff".

What is your "Good Stuff" may vary from mine.

Everything my big brother has is "Good Stuff", because he takes care of or fixes all his stuff. When his stuff gets old, it just gains character, when my stuff gets old, it becomes physical junk not worth fixing or ... not worth listening to or reading about. ... :)
Click to expand...

I was just kidding and going on Paul because you were kidding and going on about my manuel corner weight percentage math. We all have many "good stuff" things to be thankful for. Every Day. Take Care

"WOW! that's easy math to learn to do. I can see if you get use to doing it you can look at numbers on the scales and easily,almost automatically,know the numbers you need. No spread sheet or electronic anything needed.

That's going into my "good stuff" file.

thanks

ps... do you have an easy version for those over 70? ...

ps again... I'm not 70 till summer and I'm still able to use the electronic stuff to figure it out.

ps again and again... ya know I don't have a grip on the fact I'll be 70 this summer. If ya have to grow up to get a grip on things like that,I'll happily never get a grip on it." ...
 
To me, it depends on the track size, shape and condition. Some tracks I burp as I dive in and back on the gas half way in 1 or 3 and keep the power going thru the turn. Some time as nice fast drift. Track conditions determine it for me.
 
What slows me down most is age. Reflexes aren't as sharpe, eyesight isn't as good, and it's tough to stay in shape. So I've moved down to the fun class. That class has very limited horsepower so I have to conserve momentum. Tire scrub slows me in the turns, although I try to run a line that minimizes it. With such low power I can't afford to use the brakes or burp the throttle.
 
What brought this thread to mind were thoughts of not wanting to loose any momentum and the need to hold it in and turn. I started to think about what is the most efficient combination of tires to use, to get the job done from entry to apex.

That is excluding any distance you may travel in and arc at a speed, slightly above what the initial entrance to the turn, caused your speed to be reduced to. ... :)

Thinking more on it now writing this, turn in is the biggest speed reducer, past that it becomes not wanting to reduce speed further. And that's all assuming there is no physical braking taking place. If you do brake prior to entry, so be it and that's the speed your at; when turn in reduces your speed further.

I'm visualizing a good corner being one where you can travel into it and partially around one end of the track. The farther the better because anything less is chopping off a corner some. Then institute initial turn in with it's loss of speed. Then it's put a little hp to it to utilize the new found grip at the right side because of turn in, and carry the slight elevated speed to a point, where you can complete your turn and put yourself at the best exit point.

The best exit point may be to exit high, it may be to place you where you can run down the bank to a relatively straight straight, or it may be at a place where you can put hp to it drifting towards the out side of the track. More arc and you exit higher up, less and you exit sooner, but I'm pretty much convinced any time spent in the arc portion, be it an instant or a considerable distance, will lead to negotiating an end of the track more efficiently.

The real only difference between tracks is the number of times the process needs to be applied, to get around each end. or... maybe not? ... :)
 
I've found lots of differences between corners on different tracks... even between corners on the same track. Throw a dirt surface into the mix and those corners can change every time you go through them. So one driving line doesn't suffice - you have to keep searching for good lines.

My goal is to flat-foot my kart around the whole track. Since I'm running a low horsepower class I can usually attain that goal - particularly once the track is worked in - if I get my setup, tires, and driving line right. Generally I can feel the tire scrub (that slows me in turns) in the outside edges and sidewalls of my right side tires (I race LTO). Also my chassis is older so it doesn't settle onto the left rear tire as much as the new karts do, and I am running higher weight so I'm transferring more weight than a lot of the younger guys (and gals).

To help make my kart turn I do use stagger. But I try to minimize it to scrub less speed off on the straights. I also run zero toe to scrub off less speed. Some drivers don't like zero toe because it can make your kart wander. I work hardest on getting a good arc through the turns, but it is rarely a smooth arc equidistant from the inside of the track. The tracks I run on don't have turns with constant radii anyway. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are so many variables and differences between tracks and turns and karts and drivers that I can't postulate a best method of attack. You have to develop a feel for what's going on with your tire grip, and you have to be prepared to make changes during the race.
 
I don't know who it is but think someone may have indicated to try to make most of the turn into an arc. ... :)

The arc in my signature is not about making the turn into an arc. It's about inserting an arc immediately after turn in. The only reason to insert the arc, assumes you have entered the turn at the limit of grip and maximum speed at the end of the straight. And can't at the moment of turn in go any faster, because there is not grip available to go any faster.

Turn in itself slows you down. But immediately after turn in some weight transfers to the right side tires and it instantly gives you more lateral grip, then you had, when initial turn in occurred. Because of it and only because of it you can slightly accelerate and negotiate a distance at a higher speed then you were able to after turn in. I noticed this as a driver skill, after watching thousands of laps of time trials over the years. I think it is the thing normally not realized, when the seemingly slow looking qualifier, sets fast time. That is if a balls to the wall driver does not set fast time. ... :)



Rule #1 states, if you have limited hp you must try to spend more time going straight and less time turning. It also states that unless you have the hp to take the additional distance traveled at a higher rate of speed, it's always slower to arc out and smooooooth out a turn. It's slower, mainly because it provides additional distance for limited hp to scuff off speed.

... and maybe? ... :)
 
:)What slows me down is doing exactly what the guy in front of me is doing! Every kart and driver is different, no matter how closely setup they are. It doesn't matter how many laps we've made or years we've been racing, we all get sucked in. Then we snap out of it and try a different line; go in high dive to the bottom and chop the corner off so to speak. Oh look I gained a couple of kart lenghts. Now I'm right there on him so close....sucked in again and following his line....Ain't it fun tho...:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top