Note: A couple years ago, I was ask 2B a 1st-tier Dealer for ('censored' Tires) and seriously considered it. Then, I noticed my 'profit' on a complete set of (4) tires was 2B....'13 bucks'! "Hello"....?
Why do tires cost so much?
- Thread starter Priceracin04
- Start date
Note: A couple years ago, I was ask 2B a 1st-tier Dealer for ('censored' Tires) and seriously considered it. Then, I noticed my 'profit' on a complete set of (4) tires was 2B....'13 bucks'! "Hello"....?
think again on the unilli's......$99 a set wasn't the price a friend paid for his new tires....come to over $160...including the 30 for the shipping....while still a reasonable bargain, the supply and demand theory was proven yet again. folks started running unilli's and the price invariably went up.....
just sayin......
just sayin......
rebsfan4
Member
The $99 price on the tires was lifted months ago. Keep up with the current events. Do YOU have any idea just how much money Ron has put into tooling equipment to continue to put out new products? Do you have any idea how much money he has spent recently on even more NEW equipment and R&D to produce the new tire that will be available soon.
Maybe you would like for him, as a business man, to give his product away for free?
Judesdad17
Member
Yeah but they last a hell of a lot longer than 4 yard mows.
thechada75
New member
I never complain about the cost of Kart tires because I always compare the cost of a Race car tires to Kart tires.
One idea is to have a class of kart that runs on Spec 6 inch Carlisle tires. It seems that it would be a cheaper option.
One idea is to have a class of kart that runs on Spec 6 inch Carlisle tires. It seems that it would be a cheaper option.
one, i do keep up....it was a comment based on fact...that supply and demand drives prices. two, no one asked for anything for free. I run Unilli's....i pay the same price that everyone else does. this whole thing was based on the question "why do tires cost so much?".... simple question and i answered....supply and demand drive the market whether it's tires or toothpaste.....
i'd love nothing more than to see the overall cost of racing come down. we all feel the pinch, but again, supply and demand will drive whether a certain product will continue to be made or dropped into the "well that didn't work" bucket.
don't take any offense, i wasn't complaining, just pointing out that what started as one price, over time, has come to be an accepted racing item and the price naturally come up. also, understand that R&D costs are factored into what the consumer would pay for the item. new tooling? very doubtful...a tire is round...the sizes we race on are more or less set as a standard....the cost of this tooling is another factor into what we pay. what does drive up the cost, other than supply and demand, is the processes used to create the different compounds....this is where the highest cost input is from. product sustainment is another factor. you can't produce 100 tires a month and expect to deliver 150 to all your customers....you have to continually produce as long as the market will sustain that production increase.
everything has a formula derived from research into what the market will accept and what it won't. Unilli's come along when the need for a mid-range priced tire was needed. who knew that it would be accepted? it was a gamble that paid off. no, he's not expecting to give anythign away....he wants to provide for the racers, just like ARC, Dover Power, PEC....and any of a hundred other companies do...and just like those companies, he does expect to make a profit...but i must give him credit for not trying to make a million overnight! ron has given us a good product at a reasonable price that works. he took a gamble and it paid off.....
but..with that being said, other companies are offering items that could come down in price to make the tire market more competitive. instead, they continue to run into the higher prices....and we pay them....that's where the true problem lies....
i'd love nothing more than to see the overall cost of racing come down. we all feel the pinch, but again, supply and demand will drive whether a certain product will continue to be made or dropped into the "well that didn't work" bucket.
don't take any offense, i wasn't complaining, just pointing out that what started as one price, over time, has come to be an accepted racing item and the price naturally come up. also, understand that R&D costs are factored into what the consumer would pay for the item. new tooling? very doubtful...a tire is round...the sizes we race on are more or less set as a standard....the cost of this tooling is another factor into what we pay. what does drive up the cost, other than supply and demand, is the processes used to create the different compounds....this is where the highest cost input is from. product sustainment is another factor. you can't produce 100 tires a month and expect to deliver 150 to all your customers....you have to continually produce as long as the market will sustain that production increase.
everything has a formula derived from research into what the market will accept and what it won't. Unilli's come along when the need for a mid-range priced tire was needed. who knew that it would be accepted? it was a gamble that paid off. no, he's not expecting to give anythign away....he wants to provide for the racers, just like ARC, Dover Power, PEC....and any of a hundred other companies do...and just like those companies, he does expect to make a profit...but i must give him credit for not trying to make a million overnight! ron has given us a good product at a reasonable price that works. he took a gamble and it paid off.....
but..with that being said, other companies are offering items that could come down in price to make the tire market more competitive. instead, they continue to run into the higher prices....and we pay them....that's where the true problem lies....
Tonypowerkartsupply
Member
I layout over 8K when I order tires. Now I need to accept the freight. store cases. then people want me to mount them for free. All this and like the other guy said about 15$ profit on a SET of tires. anddddddddd if I charge someone tax on a tire they look at me and laugh lol
jack burroughs
member
Think race tires are expensive, just look at sneekers, invented here in U.S.A., lart U.S. production facility in Pa. closed 30 yrs. back, production went from here to Korea, then to Japan, Formosa then wound up in S.E.A., south east Asia, girl that makes them is paid $16. a week and the price doubles at every place they stop at before final sale.
Everyone can claim supply and demand, or any other reason in the sky.
It's because racers will pay $60 a tire that they cost so much. That can go for any other product or resource in the world, as well. Supply and demand is only a term made up for people who will believe that bunch of malarkey.
It's because racers will pay $60 a tire that they cost so much. That can go for any other product or resource in the world, as well. Supply and demand is only a term made up for people who will believe that bunch of malarkey.
I would bet, in the scheme of things, that the kart tire "run" isn't a huge run for the companies and they probably spend as much time setting up the molds and machines as they do producing the tires. Also, having worked at a tool and die shop, a treaded tire mold is big $$$$$. Where I do agree with many is with the cost of slicks being nearly the same when the mold for that is just a smooth donut.
I'm sure the "luxury" aspect also is part of it. I have an old boat with a 4-cylinder Volvo in it, most of the engine parts are available bought for the correct year/engine of a Volvo car, but if you say "boat" even at the junkyard, the price just doubled.
I used to import some stuff and I know it runs around $5k +/- a 40' container for freight customs clearance fee's and trucking to your shop. With the bulkiness of the tires I'm sure that adds to their cost significantly.
I'm sure the "luxury" aspect also is part of it. I have an old boat with a 4-cylinder Volvo in it, most of the engine parts are available bought for the correct year/engine of a Volvo car, but if you say "boat" even at the junkyard, the price just doubled.
I used to import some stuff and I know it runs around $5k +/- a 40' container for freight customs clearance fee's and trucking to your shop. With the bulkiness of the tires I'm sure that adds to their cost significantly.
supply and demand isn't something that's made up or used as an excuse....its just a fact of business. tony ordered 8K worth of tires. if there wasn't a demand for them, he wouldn't spend that money....that i can garan-dang-tee!! but he has customers that he supports and so the investment is worth it.
now...as for getting things for free....none of us will turn anything for free down!! that's another fact. but, we can't expect a business owner, even if he's a friend and comes to the races every night!, to jsut hand over his products to us for nothing. paying taxes? what? you expect him to hand you the stuff for a reduced cost AND not make you pay taxes? that's not business, that's suicide!
we are all guilty of wanting something for nothing....we are all guilty of looking to get something as cheaply as possible.....we are all guilty of thinking that because your my friend, your expected to give you something for nothing or a reduced cost....
just sayin......
now...as for getting things for free....none of us will turn anything for free down!! that's another fact. but, we can't expect a business owner, even if he's a friend and comes to the races every night!, to jsut hand over his products to us for nothing. paying taxes? what? you expect him to hand you the stuff for a reduced cost AND not make you pay taxes? that's not business, that's suicide!
we are all guilty of wanting something for nothing....we are all guilty of looking to get something as cheaply as possible.....we are all guilty of thinking that because your my friend, your expected to give you something for nothing or a reduced cost....
just sayin......
I'm smiling at the fact that we snag the ~1/3rd used Slicks from the shifter and tag kart guys for $0-$20 a set and get 1/2 a season out of them in 4-cycle
My experience in importing and sales taught me that there are a lot of people doing it and the margins are pretty slim. I'm stuck with that phrase from the "Lord of War" movie, "that's what is wrong with an honest buck, they are so hard to make, too many people are doing it, the margins are too low"....
What's worse, in WA state we have business and occupation tax on the GROSS sales of goods. So if you sell 1/4 million $$ a year of stuff at a low margin, the tax will take 15-20% of your profits while others in any service/labor type business don't have to pay it.
My experience in importing and sales taught me that there are a lot of people doing it and the margins are pretty slim. I'm stuck with that phrase from the "Lord of War" movie, "that's what is wrong with an honest buck, they are so hard to make, too many people are doing it, the margins are too low"....
What's worse, in WA state we have business and occupation tax on the GROSS sales of goods. So if you sell 1/4 million $$ a year of stuff at a low margin, the tax will take 15-20% of your profits while others in any service/labor type business don't have to pay it.
There certainly are other factors. No one has even talked about kart design and or track preparation.
It would actually be a little bit humorous if you took a $20 carlisle tire and value added $50 to it to make it work like brand M tire (and then you have a high dollar lawnmower tire), vs. buying brand M for $50 and value adding $20 to it (and then you end up with a high dollar racing tire). Sounds a bit like clone vs. animal doesn't it?
It would actually be a little bit humorous if you took a $20 carlisle tire and value added $50 to it to make it work like brand M tire (and then you have a high dollar lawnmower tire), vs. buying brand M for $50 and value adding $20 to it (and then you end up with a high dollar racing tire). Sounds a bit like clone vs. animal doesn't it?
rebsfan4
Member
So Mickey,
Since you think its doubtful that Ron has went out and spent money on new equipment; be it molds, tooling etc etc......, how similar do you think the new tire coming out will be to ones already available to the public. I only ask because you seem to think supply and demand are the only things that affect prices. I can tell you this for sure, the new tire isn't being made in the same mold as the tire you have now. New molds are expensive. Expenses are expected to be recovered are they not? If you went out and bought a lawn mower for lawn service work, would you not calculate the price of future maintenance and recooping the intial investment cost of the mower into your prices for rendering a service. Or would you simply base your prices on the demand you have for cutting grass?
Since you think its doubtful that Ron has went out and spent money on new equipment; be it molds, tooling etc etc......, how similar do you think the new tire coming out will be to ones already available to the public. I only ask because you seem to think supply and demand are the only things that affect prices. I can tell you this for sure, the new tire isn't being made in the same mold as the tire you have now. New molds are expensive. Expenses are expected to be recovered are they not? If you went out and bought a lawn mower for lawn service work, would you not calculate the price of future maintenance and recooping the intial investment cost of the mower into your prices for rendering a service. Or would you simply base your prices on the demand you have for cutting grass?
Someone ...
Member
It's not true "supply and demand" when a track specifies a brand (and even model) of tire. That practice eliminates competition from other makers, and no competition means little to no incentive to curtail prices. Of course you can go race at another track, if you can find one that has an open tire rule.
Maybe the problem really is too many middlemen, but the tire company can control that if they want to. If the retailer is only able to make $13 to $15 per set then I don't know why it's worth their time - they're doing racers a favor by selling tires at such a low margin, and they create some price competition amongst retailers.
I've heard the excuse "we're saving racers money because they don't have to buy a whole bunch of different tires..."; the problem usually starts with "we're saving racers money".
Racers are going to buy about as many tires as they can afford anyway. Most people quickly learn if a particular brand works best at a particular track, so they're not going to buy a whole bunch of differently branded tires unless they're touring. Although if somebody wins on a different tire it's monkey-see monkey-do... but that's their own fault for copying instead of working out their own setup. Meanwhile it killed my budget when my local tracks switched brands one year to the next - suddenly my whole tire investment was illegal and had to be replaced. It could happen again any time a tire manufacturer strikes a new deal with a track.
Gotta agree with Priceracing04 that you seem to get less tire for more money today. Not only with thinner rubber, but some brands don’t seem to work at all without prep now.
Maybe the problem really is too many middlemen, but the tire company can control that if they want to. If the retailer is only able to make $13 to $15 per set then I don't know why it's worth their time - they're doing racers a favor by selling tires at such a low margin, and they create some price competition amongst retailers.
I've heard the excuse "we're saving racers money because they don't have to buy a whole bunch of different tires..."; the problem usually starts with "we're saving racers money".
Racers are going to buy about as many tires as they can afford anyway. Most people quickly learn if a particular brand works best at a particular track, so they're not going to buy a whole bunch of differently branded tires unless they're touring. Although if somebody wins on a different tire it's monkey-see monkey-do... but that's their own fault for copying instead of working out their own setup. Meanwhile it killed my budget when my local tracks switched brands one year to the next - suddenly my whole tire investment was illegal and had to be replaced. It could happen again any time a tire manufacturer strikes a new deal with a track.
Gotta agree with Priceracing04 that you seem to get less tire for more money today. Not only with thinner rubber, but some brands don’t seem to work at all without prep now.
rebsfan4....i'm only generalizing....trying to determine what is and isn't going to happen with a new tire or buying new tooling for a projected new product is tantamount to predicting the stock market or the weather. whether it's a new compound or a new diameter or a new logo on the tire....everything has an associated cost, but it also has an associated risk. I said that I doubted if he was buying a new tire tooling machine was only a comment based on what I've learned from goodyear (had a chance to sit down with the goodyear guys at a Atlanta race one time)...very rarely do they buy a new tire machine, more than upgrade the molds that they use.
it wasn't meant to show disrespect or to question the motives or intentions of anyone....just to generalize what the whole thread as asking about....
just sayin!!
it wasn't meant to show disrespect or to question the motives or intentions of anyone....just to generalize what the whole thread as asking about....
just sayin!!
Bob Evans
Administrator
I got a pretty good laugh out of that one.
rebsfan4
Member
Plain and simple truth of why tires cost so much is........because we are willing to pay the prise set by the manufacturer.