Big block 4 stroke modifieds for grattan and mid-ohio
- Thread starter Smooth_1
- Start date
big blocks
Guys here's the deal number one cost $$ why run unproven stuff trying to reinvent the wheel look how long it took the animals to get up and going and these so called big blocks darn how much money is stuck into them? How long are they going to last. Do you want to run a class with a couple of guys and a its a flash in the pan. The whole thing quit trying to water down classes with similar engines and end up having two guys in a class. Animals are the most cost effective LM or stocker the reason why the fast guys are fast are kart set up and body size(aero) and driver skill. Engines yes make a difference but you have to get into that fast group first. JMO
Guys here's the deal number one cost $$ why run unproven stuff trying to reinvent the wheel look how long it took the animals to get up and going and these so called big blocks darn how much money is stuck into them? How long are they going to last. Do you want to run a class with a couple of guys and a its a flash in the pan. The whole thing quit trying to water down classes with similar engines and end up having two guys in a class. Animals are the most cost effective LM or stocker the reason why the fast guys are fast are kart set up and body size(aero) and driver skill. Engines yes make a difference but you have to get into that fast group first. JMO
Im not sure what you mean by similar engines when we have over 2 times the hp. Unproven, we had no engine failures. More $, big blocks cost less than LMs. How long does a LM last at 9000 rpm. In the past year big blocks have probally been the fastest growing engine in small track racing. There are numerous tracks across the country that have started classes for karts and drivers that weigh over 425 pounds and wanted a reliable engine that has more hp that was cost effective. Enough for now.
Dennis,
I love running Animals, both Sprint/Street and Road Race. You know me, I'm a BIG guy. I have had some mild success in road racing, but much more in sprint and street racing. One huge reason for that, the "Aero Effect" in sprint and street is not as important due to the lower speeds. I can't hide all my attributes behind/under a 36 inch New Concept nose. Because of that and weight, I can't even begin to pull the same gears as the little guys. Yes! LM would probably be a better fit for me in road racing. I also want to point out that there is NO classes being "watered down". At Daytona, the WKA welcomed the big blocks into the existing Sprint Open Class. I believe a 100cc two stroker won that class.
In my humble opinion, the big blocks are NOT trying to replace the Animals at all. Sprint Open is the perfect place for the big blocks and like Bob and others, I do believe you will see the numbers grow. Thanks for listening..............Steve
I love running Animals, both Sprint/Street and Road Race. You know me, I'm a BIG guy. I have had some mild success in road racing, but much more in sprint and street racing. One huge reason for that, the "Aero Effect" in sprint and street is not as important due to the lower speeds. I can't hide all my attributes behind/under a 36 inch New Concept nose. Because of that and weight, I can't even begin to pull the same gears as the little guys. Yes! LM would probably be a better fit for me in road racing. I also want to point out that there is NO classes being "watered down". At Daytona, the WKA welcomed the big blocks into the existing Sprint Open Class. I believe a 100cc two stroker won that class.
In my humble opinion, the big blocks are NOT trying to replace the Animals at all. Sprint Open is the perfect place for the big blocks and like Bob and others, I do believe you will see the numbers grow. Thanks for listening..............Steve
DAVID PLANAKIS
New member
Hi the reason that we are doing the big block is not to take away from the aminal/LM class it is to give an alternative to the tag class,I hate 2 strokes!!,I am not a real big fan of the 36" sprint chassi,I like shifter/tag chassi,as far as unproven/guestionable reliability,I put 200 miles on my engine at daytona and all i did was change oil and adjust the valves once,got home pulled it down,no sighs of wair,I pleased with how they ran and held up,my best time was 2.28 that is just slower that the front running LM,I passed every LM on the start of the race every single one,and the only LM to pass during the race was Tedder,Tinsdale And Alexander,not bad for an aero brick,the kart that won sprint open was a 135cc reed jet on a 36" sprint chassi with a driver that weighed 100lbs,he ran a 2.16 that guy was flying,once he hit the banking he was gone,but he never laped me
Sorry Big Blocks
Didn't mean to offend anyone in the big blocks must have looked at mylaps incorrectly. All's I know in LM the only guys that passed me at Daytona were Charlie and Toni, when I went may I say a tick to hot on the last lap entering the infeild (Tedder never passed me he and Iverson were always in the lead lol) Tedder beat me by I think 10 secs and Toni had me by 2 secs at the end. Just never see those big Blocks at other RR tracks.
Didn't mean to offend anyone in the big blocks must have looked at mylaps incorrectly. All's I know in LM the only guys that passed me at Daytona were Charlie and Toni, when I went may I say a tick to hot on the last lap entering the infeild (Tedder never passed me he and Iverson were always in the lead lol) Tedder beat me by I think 10 secs and Toni had me by 2 secs at the end. Just never see those big Blocks at other RR tracks.
OK, I'll bite. What is the basic engine for the "Big Block" you all are talking about? If it is too "big" (wide), it won't fit in most of the 36" wide karts anyway unless the driver seat is a XS. Might be something interesting tho to give a try. I do have a couple extra karts here, think they are 39" nose karts. An offset might work too it seems.
Dave E.
Dave E.
Hi Dave, The "Basic Engine is the Honda GX390. I'm going to shoe horn one on my SHADOW. That is no easy task considering my XXLplus seat. I believe the fastest time for these engines at Daytona was in the 2:28 range with CIK Bodywork. The top 5 Leopards with CIK Bodywork were running in the 2:37 range. I think most of these engines at Daytona were punched out to 440cc.
Hey Steve, looking at Small Engine Warehouse, the GX390 weighs in at 105#. The Animal weighs in at 35#, a 70# difference. I do have a couple questions -------- Is there a Rules Package for this motor so it doesn't get to be like the Clone and all the issues they have had over the past couple years? "Flywheels, Pistons, Connecting Rods, Carburetors, Camshafts, etc. Also, what is the Max weight for this class ? Not a big fan of the Honda ( you know me ), the flywheel is heavier than a Honda Automobile, and if the 6900rpm is true, is the flywheel safe? I did have a friends 390 apart here from a Mini Cup car a couple years ago, big motor, lots of torque.
Thanks, Dave E.
Thanks, Dave E.
Hi Dave,
I dug a little deeper in order to give you some more info. A manual start GX390 weighs 90 lbs. The electric start version I'm sure is over 100 lbs. The 414cc without fuel tank, muffler or electric start, but with cast iron flywheel is 71 lbs. I don't know what one would weigh in race trim, but I'd guess it would be around 50/55 lbs.
Joe
I dug a little deeper in order to give you some more info. A manual start GX390 weighs 90 lbs. The electric start version I'm sure is over 100 lbs. The 414cc without fuel tank, muffler or electric start, but with cast iron flywheel is 71 lbs. I don't know what one would weigh in race trim, but I'd guess it would be around 50/55 lbs.
Joe
We are trying to eventually create a class for big drivers that weigh 225 plus pounds. Small blocks are too small for us. Weight could be 425 to 450 pounds. The engine that we are using is the GX440. As a mild open they produce 30 hp @ 4000 rpm and 41 hp @ 6800 rpm. You should be able to roadrace the engine a whole season without changing anything except the valve springs. We currently run as sprint opens. I would like to use CIK bodywork and others that want more top speed could continue in sprint open. The thought is that TAGk Karts are fun but require a lot of expensive maintenance.
thechada75
New member
I like your Big Block idea, Bob since I'm a fan of the big engines.
A Bulley 4 disc that locks up @ 4000 rpm.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
I've built many open Honda 390 engines over the last 5 years or so, mostly for UAS dirt oval applications. While we used to build mostly stroked animals for around $2500 - $2800, we found that we can build the big blocks for about the same money and nearly twice the HP. Thus, the stoker, big valve animal builds fell by the wayside. Over these 5 years or so, the dependability of the 390s has become MUCH better.
The weights you guys are finding are on stock engines. That "as advertised" weight includes the ultra-heavy cast iron flywheel, counter balance shaft, air box, oversized muffler, etc that all get discarded in a performance build. The engines are still heavier than a limited animal, sure. I think when we ship them, they are just under 70 pounds. I would say they are realistically around 65 pounds as raced.
Since my background (and almost entire customer base) is on dirt ovals, I was curious to see Jeremy's big block turning left and right. Awesome. Simply awesome - and at a much lower price tag than the pricey TAGs. A 6800rpm 4 stroke sounds so much better (to me anyhow) than a 14,000+ rpm bumble bee buzzing by.
I'd like to see these big blocks catch on (both on ovals and road courses). Right now, I think the open classes are a good place for them. When there are enough showing up from track to track to merit a class of their own, then that's an option as well.
--
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
The weights you guys are finding are on stock engines. That "as advertised" weight includes the ultra-heavy cast iron flywheel, counter balance shaft, air box, oversized muffler, etc that all get discarded in a performance build. The engines are still heavier than a limited animal, sure. I think when we ship them, they are just under 70 pounds. I would say they are realistically around 65 pounds as raced.
Since my background (and almost entire customer base) is on dirt ovals, I was curious to see Jeremy's big block turning left and right. Awesome. Simply awesome - and at a much lower price tag than the pricey TAGs. A 6800rpm 4 stroke sounds so much better (to me anyhow) than a 14,000+ rpm bumble bee buzzing by.
I'd like to see these big blocks catch on (both on ovals and road courses). Right now, I think the open classes are a good place for them. When there are enough showing up from track to track to merit a class of their own, then that's an option as well.
--
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Bob, let me see if I have this correct. You are using a 440cc 4 cycle with a 4 disc Bully clutch. Where is the driver sitting in this kart, over the left frame rail like an Oval kart? It would make more sense to me to use an SMC axle clutch, the maintenance is Nil compared to the engine clutch IMO, plus you could get the seat over toward the middle of the kart more. I have not seen the 440cc Honda, where are they purchased? Northern does not have them in their catalog. I have seen the 390, worked on one, and it is a WIDE motor compared to the Animal. Just thinking Road Racing and Aero.
Dave E.
Bernie, they have a weight kit you can put in the SMC Clutch to make it engage at a lower rpm. Uncle Glenn had an SMC in the F200 class at the RR tracks. No clutch, move the seat right to get a little better side-to-side weight. Clutch will never wear out. Win - Win situation to me ! Dave E.
Snapshot,
Axle clutches are allowed for BOTH 2 and 4 Cycle in Sprint Open. Hope this helps..........Steve
Axle clutches are allowed for BOTH 2 and 4 Cycle in Sprint Open. Hope this helps..........Steve