DynoDon
Moderator
Different cam profile, different valves, billet rod, different cc, alcohol, bigger carb bore and a few other things.
Billet Rod / CC process
- Thread starter DynoDon
- Start date
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
We charge the same for plate engines as unrestricted.
DEFINITELY NOT the same for S/A engines.
Like I said - You "can" build a S/A cheaper than a legal clone, but you can't build a competitive one cheaper.
I guess I missed the part where you said pull start S/A with a claim. Everyone had to upgrade to aftermarket pull rope for the current stock class cams - what a disaster this rule would be! Could still be defeated with a compression release on the cam (or the cylinder head.)
I'm not a fan of claims either. Makes no friends, causes division and further issues at the track that we don't need, and then you've got to come up with limits of who can (and who can't) claim a specific engine. FWIW, I have yet to see a claim rule work (in ANY class of racing.) General rule is that you spend double the claim amount on the chance that you don't get claimed until you're close to rebuild time. At which point you'd be out several hundred dollars anyway, so it's no real loss.
I would agree that a bigger carb would not help -- it's all about velocity and timing the charge. Slightly bigger valves, sure, tons more compression = you bet. I still have a hundred or so funnelled port reducers here from Clements that will help with the restrictor plate issue. Of course they all fit the flathead...LOL It wouldn't be that big of a deal to set up the lathe and tools some out for a different restrictor plate and port shape. Wondering what they'll be worth to someone.
If guys want to run claimer classes or cheap stock appearings, there's plenty of opportunity already -- obviously it's not a big enough draw (except at backyard tracks.)
The thousands of guys running AKRA/NKA clone that want to continue with the class engine that they already own, would like the option of a billet rod to protect their investment. Only seems reasonable to me.
I guess it all comes down to where you want to race, there is no claim rules where we race, that's why I don't run S/A in Mississippi, most of the S/A rules there say you have to have a pull rope, if I wasn't so scared to break a hand, i would go there and wax um.
This has all been a mental exercise to see how others view the stream of rule changes and changing tech issues.
My idea of stock appearing is quite different from others. Most don't see the current clone as a stock appearing even though few of the parts actually are used as found on the stock engine.
I still think you are spending the same money for parts if you do not go billet everthing. The plate and weinie pipe were my means of not being able to make tremendous power, so all the excess may not be needed.
Just want a set of rules easy to enforce that enable more people to get in and stay in the sport.
I like the lo206, but it has its pitfalls also.
Not any perfect answer.
My idea of stock appearing is quite different from others. Most don't see the current clone as a stock appearing even though few of the parts actually are used as found on the stock engine.
I still think you are spending the same money for parts if you do not go billet everthing. The plate and weinie pipe were my means of not being able to make tremendous power, so all the excess may not be needed.
Just want a set of rules easy to enforce that enable more people to get in and stay in the sport.
I like the lo206, but it has its pitfalls also.
Not any perfect answer.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
It's interesting to see backyard tracks pop-up regularly around the country. We've got many local to us currently, but give them a few years and they'll all be gone -- to be replaced by new ones with new hope.
They all start out with old beater race karts and whatever engines were on them when they were purchased. When that one blows, they either try to rebuild it themselves or buy a HF engine to replace it. Then the "hop-ups" begin as they try to one-up their buddies. Stage 1, stage 2, etc, until they get into some real parts and have to have machinework done. Then along comes a new buddy that has deep pockets and he doesn't want to fool with shadetree building it himself and he pays a professional builder to put an engine together (maybe first within a budget, but eventually anything goes.) Well, it doesn't take long into Mr. Deep Pockets with the professionally built engine, prepped tires and newest kart at the track starts waxing everyone with their S/A rules, and attendance starts the inevitable decline as guys aren't comfortable spending that kinda dough or settling on racing for second. So they sell-out and move on to another hobby.
The trend lasts 3 years or so and is seen repeated over and over again at a ton of backyard (unsanctioned) tracks.
Had these guys all purchased sealed (and I mean everything sealed) engines OR had some tech to keep everyone on the same level playing field, they would stay in it a bit longer at least. The initial expense isn't appealing however - they are buying turn-key beater karts for under $1000 while a new (sometimes used) clone or LO206 is $1000.+
FWIW, the life-cycle of a "professional" kart racer (defined as a hobbyist who goes to their local (still unsanctioned) actual kart track, isn't much better than 3 years and out.
If we focused as much energy on keeping people in the sport as we did getting new people in, we'd see car numbers like we had back in the late '80s and '90s when there was basically one engine option and only 5 or 6 classes to choose from.
They all start out with old beater race karts and whatever engines were on them when they were purchased. When that one blows, they either try to rebuild it themselves or buy a HF engine to replace it. Then the "hop-ups" begin as they try to one-up their buddies. Stage 1, stage 2, etc, until they get into some real parts and have to have machinework done. Then along comes a new buddy that has deep pockets and he doesn't want to fool with shadetree building it himself and he pays a professional builder to put an engine together (maybe first within a budget, but eventually anything goes.) Well, it doesn't take long into Mr. Deep Pockets with the professionally built engine, prepped tires and newest kart at the track starts waxing everyone with their S/A rules, and attendance starts the inevitable decline as guys aren't comfortable spending that kinda dough or settling on racing for second. So they sell-out and move on to another hobby.
The trend lasts 3 years or so and is seen repeated over and over again at a ton of backyard (unsanctioned) tracks.
Had these guys all purchased sealed (and I mean everything sealed) engines OR had some tech to keep everyone on the same level playing field, they would stay in it a bit longer at least. The initial expense isn't appealing however - they are buying turn-key beater karts for under $1000 while a new (sometimes used) clone or LO206 is $1000.+
FWIW, the life-cycle of a "professional" kart racer (defined as a hobbyist who goes to their local (still unsanctioned) actual kart track, isn't much better than 3 years and out.
If we focused as much energy on keeping people in the sport as we did getting new people in, we'd see car numbers like we had back in the late '80s and '90s when there was basically one engine option and only 5 or 6 classes to choose from.
Jake3890
Member
Exactly it’s no longer a stock class!!! That’s been my question since the beginning.