**Calling all clone experts**

Skippy

New member
Given the rules posted below, what would you guys build to stay within these rules but get the most possible out of them? I'm thinking start with a Predator over a 196 platform simply for the extra displacement but you guys may disagree. If at all possible, I would like to stay away from getting into any machine work so that I can basically just buy parts and install them. I just don't have enough knowledge on the subject to start buying parts at random. I know everything has to work together to perform correctly. If, given these rules, you guys think there will be a lot to be gained by machine work here or there, then I will have to explore that I guess. Also, keep in mind that the tracks ran on will be short (600ft or less mostly) and soft dirt for the most part. Thanks and here are the rules:

Predator 212 Engine or Clone Engines Only (clone OHV engines of any make that do not exceed 212 cc)
Min. Weight 375
Grooved or Slick Tires
Pull Start Only
Race Fuel and Pump Gas Only - No Alcohol or Nitromethane - No fuel additives to mask the smell of the fuel
Any Clutch
Aluminum Flywheel Ok (recommended)
Mod2 Cam Ok - Must have same lift as stock, longer duration is Ok
Stiffer Valve Springs Ok (recommended)
Billet Rod Ok - Must be stock length
Stock Piston
Stock Block
Stock Head
After Market Air Filter
Header
Motor Plate and Fuel Pump Ok
Carburetor - Must be a clone style carb. Aftermarket carb is ok but no machining only can change emulsion tube
and jets. No adapters to different style carb allowed.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
follow them rules and you should be good.
 

jake17j

Member
I'd get the new style predator with the cast valve cover, this one uses the same cams as the 196's. I'd go with a bp2 cam,26# springs, holy moses bsp carb,930 header, arc rod and flywheel and stainless valves. I'd also take the head to a local machine shop or send it out to a kart shop to shave it to bump the compression up.
 

Skippy

New member
Thanks for the replies. Yes we can run the hemi Predator. Keep the replies coming guys. Thanks again.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
I'd get the new style predator with the cast valve cover, this one uses the same cams as the 196's. I'd go with a bp2 cam,26# springs, holy moses bsp carb,930 header, arc rod and flywheel and stainless valves. I'd also take the head to a local machine shop or send it out to a kart shop to shave it to bump the compression up.
stock head;)
That pretty much covers it
 

subbietjw

Member
Predator 212 Engine or Clone Engines Only (clone OHV engines of any make that do not exceed 212 cc)
Min. Weight 375
Grooved or Slick Tires
Pull Start Only
Race Fuel and Pump Gas Only - No Alcohol or Nitromethane - No fuel additives to mask the smell of the fuel
Any Clutch
Aluminum Flywheel Ok (recommended)
Mod2 Cam Ok - Must have same lift as stock, longer duration is Ok
Stiffer Valve Springs Ok (recommended)
Billet Rod Ok - Must be stock length
Stock Piston
Stock Block
Stock Head
After Market Air Filter
Header
Motor Plate and Fuel Pump Ok
Carburetor - Must be a clone style carb. Aftermarket carb is ok but no machining only can change emulsion tube
and jets. No adapters to different style carb allowed.

-with these rules 80% of your motor is there... starting from the top...
you have a choice of "fuel" if you go pump gas you don't have the added price of race gas... down fall you cant mill much more then .065-.070 off the head depending on head.... (big power gains to be had!!! you need to spend the couple bucks to have it done if its allowed)
-any clutch is good and bad... stick to your price range they can go as high as your pocket book is deep...
-the fly wheel is needed!!! theres light weight and heaver ones.. both have a place... but go with whats in your price range!!! (if on a short track may look into one of the light weight ones... a bigger track a heaver one) but the regular run of the mill fly wheel will work just fine!!!
-your cam is pretty much set with the mod2... (there may be others with the same lift and more duration??? not sure... but you can look into over size lifters... but its a bought $75 for lifters, push rods and guide plate)
-for valve springs 18lbs-ers are recommended by dyno cams... (may want to look into 26lbs springs... shouldn't wear out as fast and you may get a couple more rpms)
-you will need the alum rod!!! cut cost in other places not here!!!
-Piston, Block, and Head all need to be stock
-After Market Air Filter/adaptor will be needed...
-Header... I would think .880 i.d. or smaller would be good... id look at a rvl header
-Motor Plate and Fuel Pump...
-your carb is pretty much laid out for you... (theres little tricks like a 3-4 etube and a few others)

the only thing I didn't see was valves and keepers... if going with the heaver 26lbs springs stainless steel valves would be a plus!!!
 

jake17j

Member
sub mentioned different lifters. that really will just screw up your valve geometry you would be better off finding out how they tech the cam if they don't measure it at the retainer then get some 1.3 rockers
 

Kart43

Member
Carburetor - Must be a clone style carb. Aftermarket carb is ok but no machining only can change emulsion tube
and jets.

Where do they come up with this stuff, what is an aftermarket carb clone style for a clone?
 

Skippy

New member
When going to a 1.3 rocker with a stock lift cam, do you simply install the rockers or is any clearancing required? Also, do the stainless steel valves just drop right in or do they have to be ground to length? Lastly, how much can be milled off the head without causing clearance issues with stock rod/piston while still being able to pull start? Thanks again.
 
Sounds like a pretty cool class, but I never heard of running Predators and Clones in the same class !
 

subbietjw

Member
sub mentioned different lifters. that really will just screw up your valve geometry you would be better off finding out how they tech the cam if they don't measure it at the retainer then get some 1.3 rockers

it states theres a max lift allowed by how the rules are posted??? also I run the over size lifters in my 212.. only problems I had where when I put my 1-3 rockers on the black mamba sr... it bottomed out my guide plate and had to make a new one.. but with .065 milled off the head I still get max lift....
 

Renegade

Member
I see holes big enough to drive a truck through. You don't even want to know what I would do with that carb rule.
 
I would use the hemi style Predator. If you can , mill it down some. Run a mod 2 cam , and get the carb jetted right. If I get a chance I will do a build up of a Hemi predator, I just did an old style and got it to 10.41hp with out any internal mods. (Did air filter, header, timing , carb jetting). And, with a bored out venture carb made 11hp. Remember, this is with a stock cam, valve springs, etc.
 

jake17j

Member
you can check max lift on the cam itself and that is how I would push the grey area they leave by not putting that "on the retainer" in there.
 

astrowrench

Member
it states theres a max lift allowed by how the rules are posted??? also I run the over size lifters in my 212.. only problems I had where when I put my 1-3 rockers on the black mamba sr... it bottomed out my guide plate and had to make a new one.. but with .065 milled off the head I still get max lift....
What bottomed out on your guideplate ? Just wondering
 
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