days of no prep racing how was it

[captnimo]

Why could you not just use a spec hardness compound range like durometer reading of 60 minus 5(as an example) on a spec brand/grade of tire. I know tires change with age but they do not get softer with normal age. What ever brand tire you use you would take readings of manufactures new tire and give a minus reading range but anything over would be ok. I understand it would not work on an open tire rule but would put most on same even playing field on tires. This then would put more pressure on teams to work the chassis setups and on drivers performance. Tire shops wouldn't be happy because prep is a good money game but setup shops would love it. I know back 10/15 years ago to get a good setup man you normally had to buy your motors from the same shop.

 

[paulkish]

Why could you not just use a spec hardness compound range like durometer reading of 60 minus 5(as an example) on a spec brand/grade of tire. I know tires change with age but they do not get softer with normal age. What ever brand tire you use you would take readings of manufactures new tire and give a minus reading range but anything over would be ok. I understand it would not work on an open tire rule but would put most on same even playing field on tires. This then would put more pressure on teams to work the chassis setups and on drivers performance. Tire shops wouldn't be happy because prep is a good money game but setup shops would love it. I know back 10/15 years ago to get a good setup man you normally had to buy your motors from the same shop.

That's interesting. Set a minimum duro reading. Tire brands would only be included if they could provide a hard enough tire. I guess then any old hard tire could also be included. Sure prepping could still be done to bring duro down to what's needed, but I suspect it would be less. And then external preps would still be used, so long as they did not drop the duro reading.

While writing and thunkin on this, it just occurred to me that maybe the same amount of prep would be used to bring hard tires down to what's required and what is used to bring softer tires down to what is required. Thinking about it now, would it make any difference, bringing hard tires to needed hard or bringing soft tires to needed soft? and ?????????????? I don't know, just thought of it.

More thunkin and I think maybe it would reduce prep use, by reducing the amount of tires needed to race. It might eliminate the need to have multiple tires prepped, if what you had to use, was always harder then what the track needed or changed to. Might also reduce the need for tire cutting, but might increase the need to put on new tires to get an edge. It might lead to throwing on new tires for every race.

 

[ABR #69]

This has been discussed thousands and thousands of time, that is nothing new. Latemodels pretty much have that rule, but also a spec tire. But, it won't help. They still prep them too, lol.

 

[paulkish]

Just brainstorming on ways to stop prepping if you want to. All thrown out thoughts about it are just that, thoughts to be thrown out or thunked on. ...

If what we have now to control it doesn't work, then some other way is needed.

This has been discussed thousands and thousands of time, that is nothing new. Latemodels pretty much have that rule, but also a spec tire. But, it won't help. They still prep them too, lol.

Then does it all boil down to learning about how others can cheat, how to guess right others are cheating and how to prove or decide they are cheating.

How about this. A no prep track with a $200 or what ever it cost to send a tire out to be tested, plus the price of the tire, protest fee, pluss $100 to be put up by a racer or racers. Pay the protest fee, what ever it works out to, send the tire out and if found out of speck, the protesters get the $100 back less the cost of tire testing. Maybe a sniffer or some other testing, even the judgement of the track is enough if all racing decide on it.

What ever is used, when you sign in you agree to be bound by what the track decides, with no recourse.

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edit: Sorry I think this thread has gone away from the original posters question about how it was before prepping. ... so. Before prepping who ever was the fastest still won. Usually as today, who won was also who was best at driving, setup and knowing about racing. ...

 

[foreverfaster]

I mentioned this on another post when covering similar or same issue... if you ran the same track regularly. you get to buy 6 tires to start the season.. you get practice day/days before 1st night of racing... at the end of that you should have your wheels set.. stager size and so forth. you then turn them into the "tire barn" marked with your kart number and ID...(serial number on tires) the track stores you wheels all week long.. come race day.. you take out our six.. mount them up on your kart and go racing... you are entitled to buy one tire each night if you wish.. but can only keep 6 as "race wheels" if you wreck one, track related, you can get a replacement..

NOW,.. this will not stop guys from closing up there trailers and doing some prep work .. could be done with karts, a lot harder to prep 15 inch wheels and do any good on race day.
anybody worth their salt, can get there stager, scale and soforth at home to get their kart in order with old tires... knowing the size of the wheels setting in the tire barn for race day... this in my mind is the only way to really limit the use of tire prep on kart tires. this puts everyone in the same situation... NOW..

if there is a big race... 50/ 100 lap you are entitiled to buy 5 new for that event... in which case.. on that event you could have as many as 11 wheels ready to go... none prepped... at the end of the night.. you turn In 6 to the barn and they are what you'd have for the next week..

 

[phenom101]

What ever is used, when you sign in you agree to be bound by what the track decides, with no recourse.

If they allow prep, figure out how to use it or hire someone if you can't? and a little clause that says "Race at your own risk". If the racer doesn't wanna use proper safety in handling chemicals thats on them. I think the majority already conform to using prep, Maybe if a track had a big enough following of "non-preppers" they could have a "NO PREP" class? I think it would be pretty obvious if someone was using prep or not, kinda like running HT3's in an EL class kinda obvious. And a claim rule on the tires, just like there was on the motors a few years back.

 

[Someone ...]

I was just wondering how the days of no prep racing compared to todays racing with prep. just watching others over the last 3 to 4 years where we race at everyone is chasing the bottle constantly just wondered how it was before everyone used this so called tire magic. I still believe personal that a kart with the proper setup and tire combination can still win, but I still do the prep deal just cause I see it as more of a bandaid for a not properly setup kart with the right tires just wondering how it was then compared to now.

It was a whole different world. But realize that back then the tires and chassis were more primitive too.

I don’t know when tire chemicals became popular, but back in the 1970s I don’t remember seeing any. Some guys would experiment with grooving tires, and of course we changed air pressures. Wheels were bolt-together so you changed stagger by either using a different width rim half or a different width spacer. I don’t remember people stretching or shrinking tires like they do today, and that might not have worked because the old tires were so thick. There weren’t many choices of rubber compounds, but you could try swapping them since different brands did exhibit different softness. Some tires were like hockey pucks, and you could get several seasons out of them - even on pavement.

I remember it was a big deal when Goodyear came out with a 6 inch wide “Blue Streak” tire (and Carlisle soon followed). Until then you used skinny tires (3 to 4 inches of tread) on all four corners. With the original engine-behind-the-seat chassis designs (and even the first sidewinders) it was hard to load the front tires. So instead of the big RF we use today karts looked more like drag cars – wide tires in the back and skinny tires up front. The skinny tire would heat up and stick better than a wide tire (on the front). We still keep that practice today on the LF.

With motors of about the same horsepower as today (and sometimes more) but with very stiff chassis, you drove differently too. Instead of sitting still in the kart you would use “body English” – throw your butt out as you entered the turns, then lean to the left, so it helped pivot your kart. It threw you sideways (like a Sprint car) and was a lot of fun… today that just slows you down.

I won’t argue about whether tire prepping is a good thing or not. It is different. Yes well prepped tires can compensate for a poor setup, but it usually won’t beat the guys who do good setups. The guys who know good setups also know how to choose and prep tires. It’s a package deal, and unless everybody leaves out part of the package you’re at a disadvantage if you don’t prep tires to get as much performance as you can. But you can over-prep too, or waste prep by not giving it enough time to work, so people who are “chasing the bottle constantly” may not be doing it right (and you can beat them).