Front End Adjustments

jaymancds

Member
Ok, so first test and tune was Saturday, and my kart was gawd awful tight. On a 1-10 it was an 8.5 when the track was pretty dry, and a 5.5 when it was tacky. I made 3 runs, and in the final run I was trying to really sling the rear out on entry to get it through the middle. I know my weights are all jacked, and I cant tell you what they are as I haven't scaled it since Saturday.

My question, can you give me a basic explanation of raising and lowering the front spindles to adjust weights?

I assume that if I lower both spindles the same, nose weight goes up, cross does not change?

If I lower the LF spindle lower than the RF then cross increases?
 
Ok, so first test and tune was Saturday, and my kart was gawd awful tight. On a 1-10 it was an 8.5 when the track was pretty dry, and a 5.5 when it was tacky. I made 3 runs, and in the final run I was trying to really sling the rear out on entry to get it through the middle. I know my weights are all jacked, and I cant tell you what they are as I haven't scaled it since Saturday.

s to adjust weightMy question, explanation of raising and lowering the front spindles?can you give me a basic

I assume that if I lower both spindles the same, nose weight goes up, cross does not change?

If I lower the LF spindle lower than the RF then cross increases?
My question would be what were you trying to accomplish by lowering both ? just make a cross adjustment ? OR trying to raise the front end of the kart for more body clearance ?
 
Interesting! never thought about this, but what he asked about moving each spindle the same adjust nose wieght without messing up anything else TOO MUCH? just curious cause im fighting a nose wieght issue with a jr sportsman champ. sorry to high Jack thread!
 
My question would be what were you trying to accomplish by lowering both ? just make a cross adjustment ? OR trying to raise the front end of the kart for more body clearance ?

I haven't made any adjustments yet. I left it where it was and just tried to do what I could with it. I wouldn't mind a bit more body clearance, but my main thought was to try and get weight to the nose to get the rear loosened up.

Is 4 bathroom scales on a level floor a cheap way to get into the ball park weight wise?
 
I haven't made any adjustments yet. I left it where it was and just tried to do what I could with it. I wouldn't mind a bit more body clearance, but my main thought was to try and get weight to the nose to get the rear loosened up.

Is 4 bathroom scales on a level floor a cheap way to get into the ball park weight wise?
Then just move some weight and add it to the nose, Don't move your spindles, you say tight OR was it a push ( would not turn ) yes you can scale with 4 bathroom scales.
 
Then just move some weight and add it to the nose, Don't move your spindles, you say tight OR was it a push ( would not turn ) yes you can scale with 4 bathroom scales.
It was a push, just would not turn at all. Running Predator 400 I'm already 15 to 20 pounds over with no lead. I'd hate to add more weight.
 
It was a push, just would not turn at all. Running Predator 400 I'm already 15 to 20 pounds over with no lead. I'd hate to add more weight.
Have you scaled it before Sat ? what chassis is it ? If you've scaled it before Sat what were your numbers and cambers ? give some details on seat placement, front seat notch close to post ? What size track ? how much rear stagger ?
 
Raising or lowering both spindles equally to gain or lose nose weight is not going to do it .
1/10ths of a percent at best .
The thing about a push is the only way to make it turn is lift .
The extra weight is not going too affect lap times near as much as lifting in each corner. Once you get a better handle on things you can remove some or all .
Basic set up numbers and tire info is needed .
 
Have you scaled it at all ? what chassis is it ? If you've scaled it what were your numbers and cambers ? give some details on seat placement, front seat notch close to post ?
I scaled it at a friends place, but I found out Saturday that when we scaled it the left rear and left front scales were plugged in backwards. I don't know what the numbers were other than being a total of 415. Its a 2016 Umax. I'll take a measurement from the post to the center of the notch. I assume you mean the post that holds the steering wheel in place. I have no idea on camber.

I'll try to track down some scales and get some numbers today or tomorrow to see where it is.
 
What was your stagger, front & rear.
Shrinking the LR, will lower cross, & help make it turn. What air pressure spilts were your running?
More split should also aid in turning ability
 
I scaled it at a friends place, but I found out Saturday that when we scaled it the left rear and left front scales were plugged in backwards. I don't know what the numbers were other than being a total of 415. Its a 2016 Umax. I'll take a measurement from the post to the center of the notch. I assume you mean the post that holds the steering wheel in place. I have no idea on camber.

I'll try to track down some scales and get some numbers today or tomorrow to see where it is.
If wires were crossed numbers mean nothing, just scaling it with out confirming your camber settings won't do much good.
Yes by post I mean steering post, no I don't mean centered to post I mean is notch touching the post as far front as it can be.
 
There's a difference between placing weight and being able to move weight to where it's needed.

If you push both spindles down equally yes you may increase nose weight.
But at the same time your moving the parts you have to operate to accept weight higher up and that causes me to ask you:
If you stick the front end parts up higher isn't it going to be harder to put weight to them to make the front end operate?

My thoughts are it's always easier to get dynamically operating weight to do something for you down hill then uphill.

When we had a push and needed more turn I generally increased how the RF tire was angled to the track when the steering is operated as I thought it would be on the track.
That and I had to make another decision based on how much energy was available to me out on the track to cause the chassis to do its thing.

In general if your going slower because the track is slow then you need to do stuff to make it easier for the chassis to operate out on the track.

If there's grip, speed or hp available you have a ton more on track forces available to you to operate your chassis.
In that case you can make the chassis harder to operate and hold dynamic weight transfer back because you don't need so much weight to move somewhere else.

... so you might put the RF spindle down on a fast high grip track and use less camber because you don't need to knife the RF tire into the track.
... and the opposite when the track slows and there is less bite.

Pretty much I'd say you should not have raised up the front and instead maybe you might have tried lifting up the RF spindle and angling the RF tire more when camber gain occurs to cut into the track better.

This is all about dead recognizing because without having numbers all I and you can do is think about what you need it to do to fix your push.

... or it ain't and this is all just IMHO and ain't necessarily right anyway. ... :)

ps... sure you could be driving the thing too hard from the back or your going to fast into the corner making it push. But I always think first of doing something to get more out of it rather then to take something away from the back.
 
What was your stagger, front & rear.
Shrinking the LR, will lower cross, & help make it turn. What air pressure spilts were your running?
More split should also aid in turning ability
Stagger up front was 1.5" rear was 1.5". 6psi in the rights. 5psi LR 4psi LF.

If wires were crossed numbers mean nothing, just scaling it with out confirming your camber settings won't do much good.
Yes by post I mean steering post, no I don't mean centered to post I mean is notch touching the post as far front as it can be.
I think its pretty close, but not quite touching. For camber, do you actually measure it with like a protractor tool, or the blocks on the front spindles? I'm not new to the terminology, but I am not overly familiar with getting a kart setup.
 
Stagger up front was 1.5" rear was 1.5". 6psi in the rights. 5psi LR 4psi LF.


I think its pretty close, but not quite touching. For camber, do you actually measure it with like a protractor tool, or the blocks on the front spindles? I'm not new to the terminology, but I am not overly familiar with getting a kart setup.
Best is use a camber gauge.
 
Higher cross equal looser in most cases?
No your not looking at it correctly, and your confusing tight and loose with a push, big difference and the only time you would adjust cross for a push is provided you scaled it and had real high cross, and in that case if you choose to adjust with cross you would lower it .
 
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