getting serious

foreverfaster

foreverfaster

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been playing around for a year now it's time toget serious.
i have a Rage flat kart, older maybe 09?
have 1 stagger across the front
have 1.25 across the back
i am a 240# driver
me in the kart is at 404. NO LEAD
rf 74 rr 88 lf 100 LR 142.. cross 53.8 rear 57% L 60% Right 39% round numbers
will someone give me some suggestive corner weights.

R, L, Cross, rear, ect..

the kart pushes like a dump truck now.. I have borrowed some scales and am getting serious.
 
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I would guess that you would want around 47% nose and bring your cross up to at least what your left side percentage is , or 1 or 2% higher than the left side . you should try to get in touch with rage and see if they have a base line set up for your kart.
 
These are your percentages now.
Total 404
Front 43.07 %
Left 59.9 %
Cross 53.47 %

Left Front % 24.75%
Left Front lbs 100

Right Front % 18.32%
Right Front lbs 74

Left Rear % 35.15%
Left Rear lbs 142.01

Right Rear % 21.78%
Right Rear lbs 88

Front Cross lbs (26.00) Difference Right to Left
Front Cross % 35.10%

Rear Cross lbs (54.01) Difference Left To Right
Rear Cross % -61.39%
 
so, i moved the RF wheel in 1/4 inch. Left rear in 1/4 inch. same staggers, changed the seat and made it farther forward, (about 1 inch) greater slant, 9 inches up from the surface of the axle. (not sure the rule on this) seat height..
ADDED 26# between the peddles on a brace from the mounting point to the front support.
cross 59.9
left 57.6
rear 51.8
front 48.7
total weight 432

Thanks Al for the numbers, but i don't understand front and rear cross... how can i use this??
 
For a Rage, it looks like you are in the ballpark now with your percentages, based on our experience this season. Your rear stagger, at 1.25" (only go higher on rear stagger if it still pushes), is also in the ballpark, but your front stagger needs to be higher, on the order of 1 3/8" to 1 1/2", with LF camber in the + 1/2 degree to + 3/4 degree range and RF camber -2 degree to -3 degree range. Do note, however, that increasing the front stagger from your numbers above will increase cross, so you will probably need to reset your cross if you increase front stagger. We run a 3 degree castor split with the LF at 6 1/2 degrees and the RF at 9 1/2 degrees because that's where it landed when we set it up, and our driver likes it. Note that when you move the front wheels in or out you are changing the scrub radius, which effects turn in - I mention this just so you are aware of it, because you said you moved the RF in 1/4". With a Rage, it likes to have the LF in pretty far, and on our track it likes the RF in pretty close to minimum too. Don't be afraid to experiment with the scrub radius once you feel you are in the ballpark handling wise.

Finally, remember that front/rear weight distribution in a kart becomes a comfort be damned situation for the driver once they start getting taller than about 5' 6" - to get the desired front percentage, move the seat as far forward as you can get it to get to or as close as possible to your desired front weight percentage to minimize the amount of weight you have to add up front once your overall weight is above the class minimum.

Keep us posted on what your adjustments in your post#4 do to handling. :)
 
Am I missing something, you did say it's an 09 Flat Kart ?
If so with 43 % nose and 59 % left sure it will push like a dump truck, should be worse.
 
racing promotor said:
I was going by Al's numbers based on you original weights, anyway what size track is it ? What tire you on ? describe normal track conditions.
Click to expand...
He changed the numbers. IMO, adding weight to get the percentages right is a mistake.
new numbers.
Total 432
Front 48.7 %
Left 57.6 %
Cross 59.9 %

Left Front % 23.19%
Left Front lbs 100.2

Right Front % 25.51%
Right Front lbs 110.2

Left Rear % 34.40%
Left Rear lbs 148.61

Right Rear % 16.90%
Right Rear lbs 73

Front Cross lbs 10.00 Difference Right to Left
Front Cross % -9.02%

Rear Cross lbs (75.61) Difference Left To Right
Rear Cross % -103.55%

I'm not sure what these last two numbers are telling you, but they're there, so what the heck.
 
AL, love your numbers, going to go back and look at weights for each wheel. I think i know where you going with the info.. after i have settled in a bit i'll try and give you a call this upcoming week to pick your brain.

I see a lot of karts have a block or two lead in the nose of the kart. assuming most of us big guys (240#) need that weight to even things out.. kinda like a full size race car is front heavy and need lead in the left rear. this is why i added the weight.. i can' think of any other way to balance out the weight of the kart with me in it.

Race promoter, the track is about 1/6 mile high banked. 20*+ starts out wet but firm, then builds rubber and packs in.. 2 lanes easy.. tight on one end and more open on the other..
cross 59.9
left 57.6
rear 51.8
front 48.7
total weight 432 current numbers..
 
Seat gotta be mounted proper, set rear wheel spacing Inside of RR wheel 3/16 " off cassette hanger, Inside LR wheel 7/8 " off, put 1 3/8 " front stagger and 1 1/4 " rear in tires, set air pressure at 5 lb rights and 4 lb lefts place on scales with driver in seat.
2.5 RF neg camber, .5 LF pos camber, toe Right side straight up, left out 1/16", 57 % left, 58.5 % cross, 46 % nose, then look at Individual wheel weights, get LF and RR with in 2 to 5 lbs of each other, then it's all about Tires !

I would say track builds Prep line not Rubber, find out what prep is being used by most.

Good Luck !!
 
A good set up can help but a heavy driver will overload the tires and chassis. The heavier you are the less set up matters it all just mushes out at some point.
 
foreverfaster said:
been playing around for a year now it's time toget serious.
i have a Rage flat kart, older maybe 09?
have 1 stagger across the front
have 1.25 across the back
i am a 240# driver
me in the kart is at 404. NO LEAD
rf 74 rr 88 lf 100 LR 142.. cross 53.8 rear 57% L 60% Right 39% round numbers
will someone give me some suggestive corner weights.

R, L, Cross, rear, ect..

the kart pushes like a dump truck now.. I have borrowed some scales and am getting serious.
Click to expand...

If the kart is an 09, you dont have near enough cross in it, and too much left. Your sitting on the left rear too much with those numbers and that is where your push is coming from. You need more nose also. Try these numbers and i bet the push goes away....

58% Left
62% Cross
47% Nose
-2.5 to 2.75 Rf camber
.25 to .5 LF Camber
Make sure the rear back of your seat is 8-8.5" above the axle and centered with the brake rotor, move the seat forward and right/left to get your nose weight and left side weight where you need it.
1 1/4 - 1 1/2 front stagger
1" - 1 1/4" rear stagger

Make sure both front wheels are in as far as they will go without touching the frame or spindle arm, and set your RR wheel to where the inside of the wheel is 1/8" off the frame or bearing hanger, then set the left rear hub wherever it needs to be for you to get 39 1/2 rear track width, measured from outside contact patch on the right rear tire to outside contact patch on the left rear tire
 
racing promotor said:
2.5 RF neg camber, .5 LF pos camber, toe Right side straight up, left out 1/16", 57 % left, 58.5 % cross, 46 % nose, then look at Individual wheel weights, get LF and RR with in 2 to 5 lbs of each other, then it's all about Tires !
Click to expand...

With those percentages there is no way to get the LF and RR within 5 pounds of each other. With those percentages, there is 13 pounds difference between the two. It's possible to get the two within the 5 pounds you talk about, but not with those percentages. You would have to make the LF lighter for the RR heavier, or a combination of both, but you wouldn't have those percentages.
Total 432
Front 44.84 %
Left 55.83 %
Cross 58.5 %

Left Front % 21.09%
Left Front lbs 91.1

Right Front % 23.75%
Right Front lbs 102.6

Left Rear % 34.75%
Left Rear lbs 150.1

Right Rear % 20.42%
Right Rear lbs 88.2

Front Cross lbs 11.50 Difference Right to Left
Front Cross % -11.24%

Rear Cross lbs (61.90) Difference Left To Right
Rear Cross % -70.20%
 
02 rage dragon
433#
cross 55.6 Rear 49.5 front 50.4 left 59 all numbers +/- .1 as it's tough to set in the kart with the helmet on and jacket in the heat read and use the scales and write it all down LOL one man band individual %'s are
LF 26.8 RF 23.6
LR 32.3 RR 17.5
toe out 1/16
No i'm not sure what the caster, will work on that when i get proper tools.. i guess i could look at the marks and make and educated guess.

interesting enough if you turn the wheel to the left all the way the weights go to
135 LF RF 85
117 LR RR 95

static possition
117LF RF101
140LR RR 75 ANY THOUGHTS AS if this is a good starting point??
 
Total 433
Front 50.4 %
Left 59 %
Cross 55.6 %

Left Front % 26.91%
Left Front lbs 116.5

Right Front % 23.51%
Right Front lbs 101.8

Left Rear % 32.10%
Left Rear lbs 138.99

Right Rear % 17.51%
Right Rear lbs 75.8

Front Cross lbs (14.70) Difference Right to Left
Front Cross % 14.47%

Rear Cross lbs (63.19) Difference Left To Right
Rear Cross % -83.41%
What are you using to gather your numbers, they're all pretty close to my spreadsheet based on your front, left side and cross.
 
Mr angery said:
Owosso ?
Click to expand...

Nope, JACKSON !:) The track has been under the radar for several years due to management. now under new management (past 17 months).. added tons of new clay and filtered the entire track of stones down about 20 inches recut the banking. You should come join us.

Found out my Rage is an 07 silencer. guys at rage sent me some info.. will be back on the scales this weekend.. (wont be at the track) taking everything apart making sure it is free and functional..

What are the thoughts on going up an inch or 1 1/2 inches on both back tires. My thought is this should help my cross weight some and shift some % to the front. I've taken the 31 7/8 LR bumped up to 33 1/2 (5psi) and the RR is now 35 1/4 (4spi)
LOTS TO DO STILL
 
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