Track Tac

Innovation Vs. Cheating

1fasttiller said:
I'm very against blatant cheating and will always teach my kids cheating sucks but working in "Grey" areas of rule books and being innovative is perfectly acceptable in my book. It is these types of folks that have got us where we are today in the sport of racing. It happens at every level and always will.

Here is another scenario for you all to think on- local tracks that don't hardly do any tech and you're almost 100% certain that other purple plate kart in your sons class turning 6600rpm every night has to be illegal but the only thing that is checked is the plate via flashlight looking through the carb... Do you keep telling your son that he is cheating and we won't that is why you get beat even when our kart is 100%? or do you "keep up with the Jones' and flirt with areas you know won't be checked?
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We have suspicions in our son's class at a local track as well. We have just been trucking along and trying our best and would never cheat. It's very discouraging and has actually made us consider quitting but we just aren't willing to stoop to their level. I know we could pay $200 and get their motor torn down but the teching is very mediocre and we are concerned even with a protest they wouldn't check everything. On a side note we are 4 for 4 with suspecting people of cheating at various tracks and then several races later the kid getting DQ'd at a different track for things with the valves or head.
 
On the note of other dumb SM tricks...
Filling the "frame rails" with lead after you lightened the car to the extreme to move the COG lower. And then adding in the maximum amount of ballast to the passenger floorboard. So the teched amount of lead was legal, but you have 200lbs of lead hiding in the frame rails...
Guys would do the same thing by melting shot inside of the cage...

We just got around it by making a "seat bracket" (that did in fact hold a seat) out of 3/4" steel plate. Then we would stack washers and use way more hardware than was necessary to mount the actual lead since they only weighed the lead... In my eyes, and in techs eyes... that was legal since you could make brackets out of anything... And cool suit systems were legal (but I didn't own one) so we put a cooler+bilge pump in the back full of water and ice to make up an extra few lbs...
 
1fasttiller said:
Do you keep telling your son that he is cheating and we won't that is why you get beat even when our kart is 100%? or do you "keep up with the Jones' and flirt with areas you know won't be checked?
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You lobby for proper tech and quit racing there if it's not implemented, IMO. There should be rules, they should be enforced, and should mean something to everyone involved... JMO, of course.
 
When they ask about drilling the plate or something else . Then there old enough too know the facts . Until then no need to infer the others are cheating .
No we are not cheating just because others might be .
Simple and factful .
If you feel the rules are being broken put up the protest money .
 
1fasttiller said:
I'm very against blatant cheating and will always teach my kids cheating sucks but working in "Grey" areas of rule books and being innovative is perfectly acceptable in my book. It is these types of folks that have got us where we are today in the sport of racing. It happens at every level and always will.

Here is another scenario for you all to think on- local tracks that don't hardly do any tech and you're almost 100% certain that other purple plate kart in your sons class turning 6600rpm every night has to be illegal but the only thing that is checked is the plate via flashlight looking through the carb... Do you keep telling your son that he is cheating and we won't that is why you get beat even when our kart is 100%? or do you "keep up with the Jones' and flirt with areas you know won't be checked?
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Hopefully you have an experienced, fair tech man, and you pay the protest $ to find out once and for all if their legal?
 
This brings up some differences as well .
Failing tech and cheating .
I believe you can fail tech and not be cheating .
Now that said 1/2 a degree out of spec on cam timing or or a thousandths or two of lift . Those type things can happen . Drilled restrictor plates , Oversize vales , high lift cam and over bored carbs , another thing altogether .

Racers with one or two years experience seem to suspect cheating more so then more experienced racers .
Two hundred dollars should get a full teardown or unitl its found illegal or legal whichever the case may be .
Possibly a refuasl of inspection from the racer .
First thing too ask is the tech certified and or a respected tech person in the area .
4. Different tracks 4 different teams is possible , though unlikely .
 
here is another out look.we run a track in northeast new york this said track has almost no tech and the tech inspector also has carts on the trac
in the same races we race .that being said i refuse to cheat i don't want to explain to my grandson we lost the race because i cheated.
so we try to be spot on every race and beat them at there own game which we are successful.2 points out of first with one race left in the season.
have been torn down more then once and i get a kick out of the faces i get when we roll out of tech smelling like roses.

PS one smart racer told me forget the points go for the checkered flag and the money it will give your grandson more satisfaction at the end of the day.
 
XXX#40 said:
If 1 kart wins every week it shouldnt be up to the racer to put up his money to find out if there is cheating, the track should do a complete tear down and check after say the third race won by the same kart.
Its the tracks responsibility to provide a fair place to race
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good luck with that!
 
I use a flashlight and a camera to look inside a carb. There are many things that my scope will show me. If I become suspicious of what the scope is showing I will request everything be removed for further inspection.
 
Just because a kart wins three or four races in a row isn't justification for a complete tear down. There are factors that need to be considered in the decision in regards to just how far the teardown should go. A good tech looks at ALL those factors
 
DynoDon said:
Just because a kart wins three or four races in a row isn't justification for a complete tear down. There are factors that need to be considered in the decision in regards to just how far the teardown should go. A good tech looks at ALL those factors
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Tear one down and put the fear in the rest.
You win 3 or 4 in a row you should have no problem letting them tear it down, bet you win 3 or 4 in a row and the rest are already talking behind your back
 
XXX#40 said:
Tear one down and put the fear in the rest.
You win 3 or 4 in a row you should have no problem letting them tear it down, bet you win 3 or 4 in a row and the rest are already talking behind your back
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Thats a fact. When we first showed up at our local track last year and won the first race out we got swarmed by several dads and even the track promoter (had a kid in the class) The immediately wanted us tore down and we obliged. Second race out we half tracked them and same thing happened... lol now they leave us alone.
 
One problem keeping kart racing on the up and up is it's generally the lowest budget racing around, except maybe for mini stock 4 cylinders.

I know when we raced karts, in general even the lowest put your "CASH" up out or your own pocket was a tough gamble for me. Especially tough when our household budget was stretched to the max to get us to the track.

It's easy to shout protest but for many or maybe even most, putting up the hard "CASH" ain't that easy a thing.
 
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paulkish said:
One problem keeping kart racing on the up and up is it's generally the lowest budget racing around, except maybe for mini stock 4 cylinders.

I know when we raced karts, in general even the lowest put your "CASH" up out or your own pocket was a tough gamble for me. Especially tough when our household budget was stretched to the max to get us to the track.

It's easy to shout protest but for many or maybe even most, putting up the hard "CAST" ain't that easy a thing.
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Paul you are spot on. I wish I Had the extra $150-200 to put up for the protest fee. It usually takes all of my play budget to get us to the track on fresh tires and quality parts.
 
Kartracer123 said:
We have suspicions in our son's class at a local track as well. We have just been trucking along and trying our best and would never cheat. It's very discouraging and has actually made us consider quitting but we just aren't willing to stoop to their level. I know we could pay $200 and get their motor torn down but the teching is very mediocre and we are concerned even with a protest they wouldn't check everything. On a side note we are 4 for 4 with suspecting people of cheating at various tracks and then several races later the kid getting DQ'd at a different track for things with the valves or head.
Click to expand...
1977, IKF Nationals, Atwater California. I was running the KT 100 class and the rules said "bearings are a non-tech item". At that time, the ignition cover on the KT had a 3rd bearing in it. It didn't need it, and so I left it out. Just to be sure, I consulted the tech guy. He said the bearing had to be there. I said "but bearings are a non-tech item", he said "I don't care, it has to be there". Well, seeing as their a non-tech item, I took all the balls out and ran it with a inner and outer race. I ended up not running the class.
 
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