Local track wants advice on cheating/penalties

Lucky_7

Member
So last night at the drivers meeting our track owner asked everybody for advice on how to penalize cheaters. Mainly in the kids classes. Understandably it's a hard thing to tell a kid that they are illegal and lose all their winning for the night. So he would like to try to keep the kids unaware of the penalties as much as possible. I've heard some tracks, in the stock predator class, if your caught once you are banned for the year in that class. It seems unfair to ban a kid when the parents are the ones who are really cheating.

So what are some of the ways your tracks penalize cheaters for both the adult and kids classes?
 

95 shaw

Premium User
What, exactly, do you want the kids to learn?

Might as well give participation trophies at sign in. Then everyone is happy?

Either you penalize the cheater, or you are penalizing the rest of the field for not cheating.

If the parents do not want the kid to know, easiest would be to not cheat.

Kinda my point on open tech.
Otherwise, rules just keep the honest people honest.
 

ponytl

Member
I think the kids need to know their parent is a scum bag... who the frick would cheat in a kids class? start at the rear the next 3 races
 

Lucky_7

Member
I like open tech also, track owner doesn't.

I agree about teaching your kids the right way to compete. My biggest ever complaint so far is tire prep in kids classes. To me your not teaching driving skills when prep is always there to handicap them...that's a little off subject...
 

95 shaw

Premium User
ban the parent for 1 race for 1st offence.... that was just a suggestion not what the track I run at does
Again, you are rewarding the cheater, penalizing the rest, unless driver loses winnings for the night. Loss of accumulated season points doesnt seem uncalled for.
Repeat offenders, another thing again.

Penalty in itself should be the deterrent to cheating.
No tech, or let off with a warning, simply an invitation to continue activity.

If you want to run with no rules, all in class should be told, so they can do the same.
 

Marcis71

Member
Teching in the late 90’s the hardest thing I ever did was take the mid season championship trophy away from a 7 year old; he was heartbroken. But ultimately he ended up mad at his dad because of the “deburred” restrictor plate. Right or wrong I explained to the kid what was wrong.
 
"it's a hard thing to tell a kid that they are illegal and lose all their winning for the night"
True, but it's necessary or else they won't learn. There are consequences, even if the cheating was the fault of somebody else on your team.

"keep the kids unaware of the penalties as much as possible"
In my opinion that's bad policy. In life there are rules, and the law says ignorance is no excuse.

The cheating penalties in the kid's classes should be the same as the adult classes. As Marcis71 said, you calmly explain to the kid and his parent / guardian what was wrong and why, and what they can do to fix it for next time if you can.

I'm not keen on a yearlong ban for rules infractions, except if it's because of fighting or doing something unsafe intentionally. Even then most tracks give a second chance, unless the offender got too aggressive - at which time they need to meet the deputy that hopefully the track has to enforce the peace.

If you don't enforce your rules for the kids classes, or if you try to keep the kids from knowing what is happening, you're training your future racers to give you a lot more trouble when they're older.
 

Menace61

Member
DQ for first offense, explain why deemed illegal. Loss of all accumulated season points for 2nd offense.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
"it's a hard thing to tell a kid that they are illegal and lose all their winning for the night"
True, but it's necessary or else they won't learn. There are consequences, even if the cheating was the fault of somebody else on your team.

"keep the kids unaware of the penalties as much as possible"
In my opinion that's bad policy. In life there are rules, and the law says ignorance is no excuse.

The cheating penalties in the kid's classes should be the same as the adult classes. As Marcis71 said, you calmly explain to the kid and his parent / guardian what was wrong and why, and what they can do to fix it for next time if you can.

I'm not keen on a yearlong ban for rules infractions, except if it's because of fighting or doing something unsafe intentionally. Even then most tracks give a second chance, unless the offender got too aggressive - at which time they need to meet the deputy that hopefully the track has to enforce the peace.

If you don't enforce your rules for the kids classes, or if you try to keep the kids from knowing what is happening, you're training your future racers to give you a lot more trouble when they're older.
This covers it. If you keep the kids from knowing the penaltys you are fostering bigger problems down the road .
 

Lucky_7

Member
Thanks for all the opinion guys. For the most part I'm right along with all of you. I'm going to forward this on to the track owner and see what he thinks.
 

LynnRacing

Member
Again, you are rewarding the cheater, penalizing the rest, unless driver loses winnings for the night. Loss of accumulated season points doesnt seem uncalled for.
Repeat offenders, another thing again.

Penalty in itself should be the deterrent to cheating.
No tech, or let off with a warning, simply an invitation to continue activity.

If you want to run with no rules, all in class should be told, so they can do the same.
Oh , they would still lose points but I would still ban the dad for a week …. would be tough for the dad to explain that one to his kid IMO
 

ponytl

Member
Really been thinking on this one... I think there is Blatant Cheating , pushing grey areas, out smarting the rules, not knowing how a rule is interpreted/measured , just not knowing period... buying an engine you were told met specs.... so much is how it is presented to the competitor and how the competitor reacts... we lost a 2nd place second time out because we did not know the clutch rule... no harm.. we lost the finish and the other karts moved up... Tech guy was cool... pointed out the rule... and all i could do was say I'm sorry... unless some kid has been killing everyone at the track and was finally caught red handed doing something blatant... DAD had to know... but minor iffy performance gain stuff ... then I think i fall on the side of... take todays finish away... and lets get it corrected by next week... I don't want to ban anyone or send them off to race at another track if it was a grey area or unknown to the competitor..
I think how everyone involved acts and reacts determines the outcome...
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
^
that's a reasonable approach for a local track . There is still some discretion involved, which can lead to issues.
there are always issues so no foul there.
Deer in the headlight look --- Honest mistake .
List of excuses--- guilty .
 

Marcis71

Member
^
that's a reasonable approach for a local track . There is still some discretion involved, which can lead to issues.
there are always issues so no foul there.
Deer in the headlight look --- Honest mistake .
List of excuses--- guilty .
Completely agree, but, illegal is illegal ( I mean out of spec :)) and in my opinion needs to be handled the same way. Discretion doesn't work for me because everyone needs to be held accountable equally, I mean a rule book is $25. Also, I forgot to mention this above when I posted but we never banned anyone. Penalty was loss of points and money for the night and a 100% guarantee you were gonna be teched when you came back the next week. We would also always help someone came forward and asked what was or wasn't legal. Lastly on a regular race night we used poker chips to determine what would be teched each night. Winner reached into a bag and pulled a chip 1-7, #1 on the chip meant teching carbs, #2 Cam tech, etc.. and we also had the dreaded skull and cross bones - full tech :)
 
With kids its tough... I agree with many above. You have to let the kid know if dad is blatantly cheating but if its a minor infraction such as a illegal head by .001" then your penalties need to match accordingly.

Hogged out restrictor plate = embarrass dad and let kid know dad cheated, all points and win is taken away.

Head fails CC check by .5-1cc = be polite and let both know it is out of spec and needs fixed. Only lose win for the night.

2nd offenses deem more harsh punishments, then start issued bans to compete.
 
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