Need some thoughts

B

buckshot35

Member
I am on a 2011 Legend matrix. The kart is loose center off. Turns in to the corner great but from center off it is flat out loose in the rear. I am looking for some thoughts. My numbers are
F 46.2
L 58.5
C67.8
-3.3
+.5
Maxxis tires and have plenty of bit in them

Will increasing lf camber help?
 
I don't race LTO, so I don't know how significant this is, but you are carrying a lot of weight on that LR.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
(Al Nunley)
 
alvin l nunley said:
I don't race LTO, so I don't know how significant this is, but you are carrying a lot of weight on that LR.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
(Al Nunley)
Click to expand...

Al,

What is "alot" of weight? Every LTO kart out there is going to carry more weight on the left rear then any other tire on the kart.

Buckshot35, what kind of rear stagger are you running? Generally, an exit problem is a rear end problem. With that much left and cross, you should be planting the LR really hard on exit, maybe so much that the RR isnt holding any grip on exit
 
alvin l nunley said:
I don't race LTO, so I don't know how significant this is, but you are carrying a lot of weight on that LR.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
(Al Nunley)
Click to expand...

58.5 L and 67 C is a very standard set of percentages nowadays.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
58.5 L and 67 C is a very standard set of percentages nowadays.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree! I run setups through my spreadsheet all the time and very seldom see this much weight, percentage wise, on the LR. 40.5% on the LR is significantly different from most setups. When the LR is 191% heavier than the RR, it's way different from most setups.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
(Al Nunley)
 
do you have something negative to say all the time, it sure seems like it, and if you don't know lto karts don't say anything and that is a common setup in fact that is all we run and it works if you know what you are doing ( talking about Alvin )
 
Al
not to be rude but how many races has a spread sheet won? I could care less what it says. get in a LTO kart sometime hen maybe we can talk. other wise I am looking for feedback form racers that have raced
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
58.5 L and 67 C is a very standard set of percentages nowadays.
Click to expand...

LOL Earl I guess all of your first hand experience with setups and ACTUALLY going to LTO races and setting up tons of modern LTO karts has been trumped by a man who has never raced an LTO kart, and his fancy speadsheet.

Al maybe if you would try and listen to what people try and tell you instead of constantly try and disagree with people (who actually race LTO karts) people wouldn't get on your case all the time
 
If it was loose center off I would say that it is either a bite issue or maybe a little too much rear stagger
 
Your profile says you're in Wisconsin, I know the dirt is much different than the dirt on the east coast, you say your tires have lots of bite in them but are they soft enough or perhaps to soft? What's happening at the beginning, middle and end of a run? Honestly with the setup you gave you are transferring quite a lot of weight back to the left rear on corner exit, you really shouldn't be extremely loose. I'd say we really need more info on track conditions and current tire duro's to better help you; plus out of curiosity what are your castor numbers and front and rear staggers?
 
kartboy63 said:
do you have something negative to say all the time, it sure seems like it, and if you don't know lto karts don't say anything and that is a common setup in fact that is all we run and it works if you know what you are doing ( talking about Alvin )
Click to expand...
I don't see where I said anything negative. Everything I said was positive. Solid information, that's all I gave. Instead of putting me down, why not help the original poster?

As far as a common set up goes, I've checked out at least 100, maybe a lot more, setups. People post them here all the time. Only seldom do I see a difference between the LR and the RR over a 135%. I gave no setup instructions. I gave no negative information. I only said what I saw.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
(Al Nunley)
 
ya know, I'm going to suggest paying attention to what Al suggested. I accept he looks at a lot of numbers and assuming what he says of: "I have to disagree! I run setups through my spreadsheet all the time and very seldom see this much weight, percentage wise, on the LR. 40.5% on the LR is significantly different from most setups.", is correct... then maybe we ought to pay attention to it and look at it a little closer.

I think I know where Al's coming from. Years back I got into the numbers which I am not now and have lost the feeling for kart numbers. Back then when numbers were posted and something was out of the norm, it would be obvious to me and I think it's an obvious thing for Al. I'm not saying don't argue his suggestion is not correct based on experience, i'm suggesting to take a double look at it before you do. Sure your experience can tell you his input is obviously out of line, but please first look at it objectively if you can. I know it's Al and I have that same tick eating me too, but were here to try to help other racers and sometimes Al can be correct. Now me, I figure up front i'm wrong on everything... ... :)
 
ps... hey Al ... :) ya know what... ya just gave a reply to someone who disagreed with you and didn't pout and moan about being abused and spat on... ain't it nice to be nice and look on the bright side, ... :) your reply made me feel good about not just the reply but how you handled it. Sir, maybe even an old fart can grow on here? Maybe even me. ... :)
 
blh0728 said:
Al maybe if you would try and listen to what people try and tell you instead of constantly try and disagree with people (who actually race LTO karts) people wouldn't get on your case all the time
Click to expand...
I listen to what everybody says. I listen to what Earl says. Obviously I'm listening to what you say. Is it not permissible to disagree with you, or Earl? There are countries in this world where people cannot disagree, thankfully this is not one of those places.

The fact that I have never raced an LTO has nothing to do with anything. All kinds of people have all kinds of ideas on things they've never done.

What surprises me is, I've seen many people post here on things they have no clue about, yet they do not get admonished near as much is me.

As my sig. says, comments compliments and criticisms. If you have a comment, or a criticism of what I say, it makes no sense to get on me about it and start accusing me of things, give me your ideas, but your ideas up against mine, this is the whole point of this place. A free exchange of ideas.

And like I've said before; the sun must be low on the horizon for one man to cast such a long shadow.
From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
(Al Nunley)
 
Al, it doesn't matter, the difference between the RR and LR. Weight is transferred in an X pattern between the LR and RF as well as the RR and LF. Right now his wheel weights are roughly;

75 120
170 60

disclosure I set the total weight at 425 just because I could; the setup would read @ 46% nose, 58% left and 68% cross (roughly what he's running now) I had a better more tunable software on my old phone but haven't transferred the program to my new device.

the difference between the LR and RF isn't very large; same goes for the LF and RR, it's not a big weight difference.
Also drivers are situated on almost on top of the LR corner, it's going to be the heaviest. The motor sitting next to the driver isn't really going to help make the RR any heavier to equalize the weights between the two (this isn't sprint/enduro racing, we are not trying to get equal weights between sides that would be counter productive!)

if you get confused or have so many questions with LTO flat karts, try working on a champ kart. They'll really throw you for a loop. (with today's champs you can begin to push the high cross envelope ~63% but your left side will be in the 57-58% range) most will run their cross in the same range as there left side percents. The no-go flat/dead spot in setups that will make a kart appear flat or dead from center off on flat karts. to show you that I'll post a typical champ setup;

102 97
145 81

these weights equate to 47% nose 58% left and 57% cross.

running a high cross setup on a champ kart depends on your castor settings, camber settings, staggers and driver size and weight... the smaller the driver less weight that will be mechanically transferred so you can compensate that with weight placement and cross percentages.

Now lets get back on topic and help this user out.
 
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