On Tolerances...

This is the comical part....it costs just as much to cheat in the undefined (or ill defined) grey areas as it does to race legal blueprinted engines. When I bought a blueprinted engine, I knew what I was getting. When I buy a clone, I'm hoping for better voodoo from my builder than the next guy. Racing a clone was only cheaper for the first couple of years until it caught on.
You're not wrong, but NO ONE else can see that. They're only going to say that the price of the engines are too expensive. I'd really like to see all the similar OHV (196-206) engines under one category with a very strict Carb rule as Pete was talking about. Make them all run the same Carb and put the cam rules in and let them go. If the Carb is very strict and everyone is on the same carb, I think it could potentially make it much more competitive and close.
 
Rebfan I have seen several posts now where you say it's the track/tech officials at fault.

If this is happening there is a very easy solution......don't race there. Boycott the track. Show up on race day off their property and picket them. Find a new track. Vote with your feet.

I will race with the likes of Ted as well as others any day because I trust a level playing field. If I think that it's not a fair playing field then I will go somewhere else.

Then again you can say screw tech and run UAS for about the cost of a blueprinted stock class engine and have fun rather than worry if bobby Joe has a hot cam.

I dare you to be able to hook this engine up to the dirt with out being a better than stock driver for a whole $1800.
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Rebfan I have seen several posts now where you say it's the track/tech officials at fault.

If this is happening there is a very easy solution......don't race there. Boycott the track. Show up on race day off their property and picket them. Find a new track. Vote with your feet.

I will race with the likes of Ted as well as others any day because I trust a level playing field. If I think that it's not a fair playing field then I will go somewhere else.

Then again you can say screw tech and run UAS for about the cost of a blueprinted stock class engine and have fun rather than worry if bobby Joe has a hot cam.

I dare you to be able to hook this engine up to the dirt with out being a better than stock driver for a whole $1800. View attachment 21527
I don't race any more. All I do is tech and I don't allow any track owner or race promoter to tell me what I can or can't tech. I'm very clear in that I have complete control over the tech room and what I do. I also make it very clear to the racers that if you don't comply with what I want to tech, they'll be DQ'd that night and if they end up in tech again I will be looking to tech the same thing they refused tech on during their previous trip to the tech room.

The tech problem is a two fold issue. More like 2 level issue really.

1.) A lot of local tracks aren't thorough enough with their tech. Mostly in that local track owners are scared to run off racers and lose that gate and concessions money. Many of them have caved in to the racers whining and crying about "having to send the engine back to the builder" for something as simple as replacing a head. It's as simple as replacing a gasket, if needed, and properly torquing 4 bolts to specs per their engine builder. Those same track owners look for tech officials who are lazy and willing to do as little as possible and still call it tech. Then you have racers who actually look for that type track and tech.

2.) We have a lot of tech officials at the "big events" where there's a ton of money evolved and most people would consider the participants to be "professional" kart racers and/or teams, who have forgot the standards they used to hold to the highest, and have allowed the money to control what they see and don't see.

Both of these issues are a huge problem because it sets a standard by which engine builders conform, knowing what they can and can't get away with. Eventually it becomes a big enough issue that somebody complains about it. By that time the market has been flooded with said illegal parts and a rule has to be revised to try and control it. My biggest complaint about that is that the new said rule ends up benefitting the illegal parts producer way more than it should.

So our biggest issue isn't the rules and how they are or aren't written. These guys know what's wrong and what's right. Our biggest issue is lack of tech no being performed the way its supposed to be and the way it used to be before money become as prevalent in the sport as it is today. Money at the local level keeps the gates open. Money at the highest level keeps the sponsors coming.

While a blueprinted engine would great for tech, I don't need one to tell me if an engine builder has blatantly went beyond what is written in the rule books.
 
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more and more reasons to go to sealed motors. unfortunately cheating in racing is like a plate of cookies in front of the Cookie Monster nobody can help themselves
That's been done at least two times already and both times it's failed to achieve the desired results. Were you around when the Blue Wazoom came about? That was a fantastic creation for the best bang for one's money. Then some pecker head had to go and screw it all up for everyone.
 
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Was the KT-100 a sealed engine ? Or was/is it just a
spec engine with every measurement known and listed ?
I have said for some time that 4cycle karting needs a
spec engine that's measurable every which way to Sunday.
A blueprinted engine needs a blueprint to be blueprinted
to. I don't think Clones have that to the point where there can
be no cheating. We know this because someone sneaked in the 'stealth head.'
We know this because of the 30* angle being cut to the aluminum.
If there is never a spec engine, people will just keep walking the edge
of legal and stepping over when no one is looking. The little guy
will always be looking for the next big thing. 151, 181, 2-whatever.
 
The KT-100 was never a sealed engine.

Initially, the rules (specs) were called out in a way that allowed a bit of "creativity" (not intentional, just racers being racers). Port were called out from the top of the cylinder (instead of from TDC), and there were a number of other rules that were not defined in a manner that locked things down.

Eventually, those rules were "cleaned up" considerably, HOWEVER, one issue that surfaced was that the specs had to be "loosened" a bit because people had engines that may have been legal under the old rules but were not clearly legal under the new rules. This led to some specs being altered from the "original intent", which of course increased performance a bit, and caused most everyone to push the "new limits".

Unfortunately, this slightly moving target of specs ended up causing what I like to refer to as: "Rule Creep". What that causes is that after years (or decades in this case), we ended up with a Yamaha engine that had the exhaust probably close to a millimeter higher than the original/stock engine, and the intake port also lower by a similar amount. Additionally, it "ended up" being that the intake and exhaust ports could be ground on as long as the cast iron liner didn't get touched.

End result? Over many years... an inexpensive engine with a good balance of performance ended up being a less reliable, higher performance engine that cost a lot more money to build.

Bummer, eh?

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Pete I hope you already know this but as someone who was a bobs fanatic from about mid 2000's to about 2012 then recently have stopped back in there are a few names I respect like E F Hutton (us old guys get that reference lol). Your name thanks at the top of that list.

Thank you for all your wisdom provided to the community.
 
I am not really a full time tech guy but over the years I have done tech at 7 different different tracks. I have never had anyone tell me how to do so. Someone mentioned lazy tech, and there seems to be several that seem to think tech inspectors don't do enough. But think about this. Chances are that most tracks are running about 10 classes. If you tech the first 3 in each class that is 30 karts. How much can you tech on each kart without having competitors waiting for hours? I guess I might be one of those lazy techs, because I am only able to check a few items on each kart.
 
I am not really a full time tech guy but over the years I have done tech at 7 different different tracks. I have never had anyone tell me how to do so. Someone mentioned lazy tech, and there seems to be several that seem to think tech inspectors don't do enough. But think about this. Chances are that most tracks are running about 10 classes. If you tech the first 3 in each class that is 30 karts. How much can you tech on each kart without having competitors waiting for hours? I guess I might be one of those lazy techs, because I am only able to check a few items on each kart.
I mentioned lazy tech. Tech is all I do. Teching the top three isn't lazy tech.
 
Local tracks, have a chip draw for what will be teched. Big money shows? Full teardown. There was once a day when local shows were mostly for leisure racing and regional / state shows were the only money shows... Once local shows started paying money instead of points, the need for real tech arose. If there's no real spec, there's no real tech.
 
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Jumping back to Ted's post #13, I do have a few thoughts on that, which are related to some testing I did a long time ago on a Yamaha (yes: a 2-stroke, so admittedly, I have no first-hand knowledge if this would work the same on a 4-stroke).

I made a few different intake manifolds for a KT-100, and tested using a variety of carbs with progressively smaller venturis. I recall that the smallest carb had something like a half-inch bore in the venturi, so it was really small. I did all my testing direct-drive, as I didn't want a clutch interfering with a pure engine test.

The first interesting discovery was that the smaller the carb bore was, the easier the engine was to tune (still have to have a fuel pump that can supply enough fuel for the demand, but since the airflow is lower, a bit less fuel capacity is required). The tuning results were dramatic enough, that I felt a half-inch venturi carb could almost be "fixed jet" on a KT-100. The other thing I found was as the bore in the carb became smaller, the exhaust pipe length became less "sensitive". (admittedly, a direct drive exhaust pipe is not as sensitive as the pipes we run with a clutch slipping at 10,000rpm). The other major thing I noticed was that engine still revved fairly well, pulled well down low, but the mid-range was "softened" noticeably. To me, this was an ideal characteristic to have, especially for newer people, because right where the engine pulls really hard is where tuning becomes critical, and also is the point in the rev range where engines tend to "hurt themselves".

The original impetus for this testing was to try to find something better than an exhaust pill, or a spec pipe, or an intake restrictor behind the carb, or lowering compression (I'm personally not a fan of any of those). A tiny carb seemed like a really good solution for something like a beginner or junior class... easier to tune (almost "set it and forget it"), and the engine ran well through the range, just with less power.

All this testing fell on deaf ears, unfortunately.

So back to Ted's point, and also referring to my post about the old "Stock Appearing" class in IKF -- I do (personally) believe that maybe a bit larger engine (displacement-wise) with a tightly controlled small carb can be a step in the right direction (and could still have as much if not more power than the "stock" out of the box engines currently in use). It's not the answer to everything, but I believe with some testing and experimenting, many (but not all) of the engine items that may be prone to "rule bending" might become a non-issue.

Anyone that has followed IMSA racing in the past years probably knows that BOP (balance of performance) is (was) *primarily* controlled by an intake restrictor. (yes, they do other things to like tweak the weights and adjust the amount of fuel a car can carry or use in a race). I'm not a fan of BOP racing at all, but intake restrictors definitely work, and in our case... a small venturi carb may be worth testing on various levels of engines to see how they respond.

my 2c..... which with another $3.98, may get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. ;)

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