pk 250

Robby did not win the first championship on a wankel only the second the first was done with duel tators and a 305 briggs


PD Power said:
You weren't around when the UAS series was designed. It was designed to be a 2 cycle series. 4 Cycles were allowed in after a few years to add karts to the fields.
And, in fact, the Wankel DID dominate as Granatelli's Turbine dominated the USAC until the rules makers made them uncompetitive.

In karting there were very few Wankels were running when young Robbie Yow took two straight UAS championships and another Wankel won the third straight championship.
THIS history proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, the domination of the Wankel until it was pulled down by allowed radically larger and different engines into UAS. The new engine rules allowed single cylinder 2 cycles to run at 250cc's. The cam in blocks (valve clankers) were allowed to go from 446 to
510cc's. The DOHC's were allowed to go from 270cc's to 510cc's.
These rule changes and ONLY these rule changes brought piston engines back into the forefront of karting. Previous to that the 125 Sudam, in various forms was pretty much the ruler of the roost.
Weight changes have little effect in Unlimited karting.

Please do not, as you tried to do previously on this forum, attempt to show how the 250 2 cycle was permitted in karting. Those engines had like 9hp, and were never run in modern karting...or in UAS.

These displacement rule changes were solely the result of the Wankel joining the field...as UAS legal.
Wankels history in motor racing has been to not allow them to compete against piston engines. NHRA booted them of their organization and will not even allow them to run in motorcycles.


In karting arguing that the Wankel was "just another entry" is a foolish and deceptive argument.


Now, as for Mr.ABR....would you be so kind as to point out where I have stated that anything will ruin karting?? If "we all" are running 600's that will create up a huge opening for karting to regain membership.

In fact, the Wankel is now at a disadvantage exactly because it is a clone, and is not allowed to be run with any changes which will again make it highly competitive, let alone, rule the roost.

Another quick thing Mr.T......the TIRES are the great equalizer, not the engines.
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Goes back to your thread about domination huh Steve, the perception of domination. The Sudam was by far the most bought and used engine so there for just in sheer numbers it dominated all the racing. Not that there weren't 4 strokes that made as much or more hp. You get a guy here or there that starts winning all of a sudden what ever engine they use is dominating.

Paul doesn't want to invest the time and effort into producing he just likes pontificate his theory's .
 
Taft Racing said:
Paul your so wrong on your history it's not even funny, I could go on and correct you on every point you wrote but then you wouldn't concede your errors so what's the point.

If you can manage to Paul click on this web site. and READ and understand the words that are spelled out clearly.

http://www.unlimitedallstars.org/

THE UAS WAS CREATED IN THE YEAR 1990 TO PRESERVE OPEN KART RACING. No where in that statement does it say 2 cycle. can you understand that Paul. NO WHERE IN THAT STATEMENT DOES IT SAY 2 CYCLE. Now if you read the original rules format the 4 cycle engines were allowed then and now,
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...that statement is not true.
Taft Racing Also MX engines were allowed way back then[/QUOTE said:
as well. Add to that the mission statement to encourage INNOVATION. This means wankles MX engines Jawa's GM's all kinds of out of the box thinking is promoted.
Click to expand...
The only "out of the box" thinking you have there is how to get a clone.... "out of the box", and build a motor mount for it.
Purchasing engines from a mainline engine, or motorcycle company..... all of which have more displacement, does not constitute innovative thinking. It constitutes innovative budget busting. The only thing innovative is building a motor mount to run one of these engines....... cause the engine is bigger than what you've got.

BUT...you just stick around buddy boy. You'll see innovative thinking coming to a track near you.

Incidentally, the original statement....on his website..... by Mark was that the UAS was designed to bring about the 2 cycles running more or less at the same tracks, TOGETHER....as opposed to a couple here and a couple there. So....Taft....you do, in fact, NOT know the history of UAS. The statements you make were all added in years and years after the origin of the UAS. ASK MARK BERGFELT.....he is the originator of the UAS and still owns the copyright for the name "UAS".
It would sure be nice, if you added truth, credibility and rationale to your failed arguments.

How about, just be quiet and just schedule races. You have been sufficient at doing that
Your reason for inserting your insulting, irrational, and incorrect diatribes, is obvious, and not flattering to you.
 
With these bigger engines it's hard to get much under 400 period, I cross the scales at 445 with a single 10lb piece of lead to get numbers with my 450. I'm 170ish, so even a driver at 150 would make 420. I know there are lighter weight options to things I've done. Body and components could be made much lighter. So I could see someone getting down to 380 or so with the right combination of materials and driver. But, I don't see that kart being that much more competitive than one weighing legal weights.

One thing Paul said which I didn't ever think he realized. But, I admit I am wrong there! He is right as many others before have said! Tires are the great equalizer, Lol.
 
Sjg22 said:
Robby did not win the first championship on a wankel only the second the first was done with duel tators and a 305 briggs
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I think we are speaking of different "championships".
I believe the Summer championship race was won by dual taters at Liberty, in 2007. I attended that race. That was not a points championship.

I believe (not willing to bet my house on it) that points championships were won 3 consecutive times by the Wankel. Charlie mentioned this to me.
That streak was broken only after the new rules were adapted......specifically and obviously to STOP that streak.
Wankels have never been allowed to "answer back" to the rules changes. The changes came about to cripple their chances of winning races/championships and have succeeded in doing so.
In all liklihood....following the $$$....the "incentives" were stopped by Wankel ...importer/manufacturer....and thus Wankel lost its allure to somebody.;)

Wankel powered karts are still formidable opponents.....and should have rules tweaked to allow them to again stay highly competitive. My personal view might be to grandfather them in, but no more after those are gone.


APB....as you mention, I believe the tires are the great equalizer.....in all motor racing. Allow the Unlimiteds freedom of tire and rim size, and I believe you'd see lap times plummet. Guaranteed top speeds would rise, considerably.
 
Ohio All Stars said:
Eventually when everybody has an mx engine, since we're well passed half way to that point in the UAS, i can see doing that. Maybe one min. Weight for stock, and a higher one for modified..
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No need to do that two weights deal. Just causes more dissension. Anyway, we don't want to anoint the MX engines as the ultimate power, do we?
What would happen with the weight rule if some other power became equal to the MX??

Remember that the Sudam had probably 90% of the winners in UAS, until.........(you know);)
 
PD with the advent of the new 9.5" tires on 11" wheels this thing is going to go another step in the direction of the big high power engines . The extra rubber on the rear will help to hook them up much better than most people imagine. I seen guys running two 9.5" on back and some with a 9.5 RR and a 8.10 LR thats a lot more hook than anything up to this point. So watch the MXs and Jawas and GMs really start to dominate on the big tracks (1/5 mile and bigger) where they can stretch thier legs out. On the smaller (1/6- 1/8) bullrings I still believe that the Sudam style engines are going to be tuff to beat.
 
ttownwideglider said:
PD with the advent of the new 9.5" tires on 11" wheels this thing is going to go another step in the direction of the big high power engines . The extra rubber on the rear will help to hook them up much better than most people imagine. I seen guys running two 9.5" on back and some with a 9.5 RR and a 8.10 LR thats a lot more hook than anything up to this point. So watch the MXs and Jawas and GMs really start to dominate on the big tracks (1/5 mile and bigger) where they can stretch thier legs out. On the smaller (1/6- 1/8) bullrings I still believe that the Sudam style engines are going to be tuff to beat.
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Yep! I think this is spot on! (As the Brits would say).
Willie Sink years ago, ran the big ones (800's) on L and RR.
His chassis was a bit different than most others.
His kart was earned then nicnamed Earthturner 1. :)
 
ttownwideglider said:
PD with the advent of the new 9.5" tires on 11" wheels this thing is going to go another step in the direction of the big high power engines . The extra rubber on the rear will help to hook them up much better than most people imagine. I seen guys running two 9.5" on back and some with a 9.5 RR and a 8.10 LR thats a lot more hook than anything up to this point. So watch the MXs and Jawas and GMs really start to dominate on the big tracks (1/5 mile and bigger) where they can stretch thier legs out. On the smaller (1/6- 1/8) bullrings I still believe that the Sudam style engines are going to be tuff to beat.
Click to expand...

If a guy knows what he is doing the big engines are just as fast on the smaller tracks!! Most of you guys on here probably have not seen them run on a small track to know any different... there's always the support class that is growing for the little engines.. :)
 
PD Power said:
...that statement is not true. as well. Add to that the mission statement to encourage INNOVATION. This means wankles MX engines Jawa's GM's all kinds of out of the box thinking is promoted.[/QUOTE]The only "out of the box" thinking you have there is how to get a clone.... "out of the box", and build a motor mount for it.
Purchasing engines from a mainline engine, or motorcycle company..... all of which have more displacement, does not constitute innovative thinking. It constitutes innovative budget busting. The only thing innovative is building a motor mount to run one of these engines....... cause the engine is bigger than what you've got.

BUT...you just stick around buddy boy. You'll see innovative thinking coming to a track near you.


It sure won't come from your garage LOL


Incidentally, the original statement....on his website..... by Mark was that the UAS was designed to bring about the 2 cycles running more or less at the same tracks, TOGETHER.

Really then why did he make all those silly 4 stroke rules in his original UAS rules format??? HMMMMMMMM MR DOSS


...as opposed to a couple here and a couple there. So....Taft....you do, in fact, NOT know the history of UAS. The statements you make were all added in years and years after the origin of the UAS. ASK MARK BERGFELT.....he is the originator of the UAS and still owns the copyright for the name "UAS".
It would sure be nice, if you added truth, credibility and rationale to your failed arguments.

How about, just be quiet Here's some of your own advise you should take,

There are more fools than wise men, and even in the wise man himself there is more folly than wisdom.



and just schedule races. You have been sufficient at doing that
Your reason for inserting your insulting, irrational, and incorrect diatribes, is obvious, and not flattering to you.
Click to expand...

Just as I thought. Facts don't matter just make stuff up as you go along lol.
Keep up the good work Paul . LOL.
 
Robby won 2008 for Charlie using that year a combo of engines from duel flatheads, a 342 briggs and a JR eng motor Matt Hope raced the first wankel for charlie


PD Power said:
http://www.unlimitedallstars.org/
Notice....Fast Eddie won the 2007 points champ. Yow won the 2008, 2009 points, and Justin Gilbert won the 2010 points championship.

Sadly enough, the early "History" has been removed from Mark Bergfelt's UAS website.
Click to expand...
 
Taft Racing said:

Just as I thought. Facts don't matter just make stuff up as you go along lol.
Keep up the good work Paul . LOL.
Click to expand...
There were no 4 cycles in the UAS as it was originated by Mark.
His 4 cycle rules, when they did decide to run with the 4's were quite good. All his UAS rules, continued until after the introduction of Wankel.......nearly unchanged.
Check w/Mark, anybody, he will tell you this.

The discussion of WHEN he permitted 4 cycles to enter UAS is not germane to this discussion.

Perhaps we will learn AGAIN from monsgr. Taft that karting was done....years before the UAS was a glint in Mark's eyes, that the 24 ci ... 9hp Army drone motors were really the backbone of karting.
Who knows what this ultimate amateur will conjure up next.
 
I can remember back in 96, 97, 98, the Clark brothers ran 4 cycles in UAS races in PA. Star motors or something. I can remember a few others
 
Remember that original Pennsylvania outlaw Champ kart gang?
Now they were funny, raced a lot, and started the nic-name game, which was picked up by the Florida Dog Pound.

There was always a tiff....but seemed good humored and funny.....between the Star runners and the Blockzilla runners.
Now those guys did some serious, out of the ordinary, creative engine work......AND some seriously creative trash talk.

Probably....when the UAS came in, would have been better off (this is just dreaming) setting up two engines....like say....the 125 Sudam, and the 9-10 hp OHV Tecumseh, and made those the engines of the entire series. Now talk about some neat trash talk. That would have been the mother of all trash talk series.

Probably the valve clankers could have allowed more than one engine.....say add on the Blockzilla and the Star (both fheads) and let 'em
take it out on each other at the track!!!

Instead we've got a talk a thon .....so called keyboard cowboys....and too few entries.

Ahhh memories!! ;)
 
Yup so get off the key board and get your junk to a track


PD Power said:
Remember that original Pennsylvania outlaw Champ kart gang?
Now they were funny, raced a lot, and started the nic-name game, which was picked up by the Florida Dog Pound.

There was always a tiff....but seemed good humored and funny.....between the Star runners and the Blockzilla runners.
Now those guys did some serious, out of the ordinary, creative engine work......AND some seriously creative trash talk.

Probably....when the UAS came in, would have been better off (this is just dreaming) setting up two engines....like say....the 125 Sudam, and the 9-10 hp OHV Tecumseh, and made those the engines of the entire series. Now talk about some neat trash talk. That would have been the mother of all trash talk series.

Probably the valve clankers could have allowed more than one engine.....say add on the Blockzilla and the Star (both fheads) and let 'em
take it out on each other at the track!!!

Instead we've got a talk a thon .....so called keyboard cowboys....and too few entries.

Ahhh memories!! ;)
Click to expand...
 
Paul your hitting the crack pipe again. When you can build a engine and show up and do more than oil down the competitors and track we'll consider your comments
Till then your just a old fool with 0 credibility.

Oh and by the way mike Clark was more then just a member of the pa gang he was a UAS champion on his 4 stroke. Too bad your memory didn't recall that
 
Taft Racing said:
Paul your hitting the crack pipe again. When you can build a engine and show up and do more than oil down the competitors and track we'll consider your comments
Till then your just a old fool with 0 credibility.

Oh and by the way mike Clark was more then just a member of the pa gang he was a UAS champion on his 4 stroke. Too bad your memory didn't recall that
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Pretty weak Timmy.
Pulling out a reference of a 3 yrs. old blowup....to throw up there again. Weak!
When did I mention Mike Clark? Another weak attempt at......who knows what?

You now set the criteria for when my, or anybody else's comments have credibility? When pigs fly!
 
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