Box Stock

Predator 212 engine reliability/ longevity with out a governor ?

kartracer_3

kartracer_3

Member
There are some folks starting a class at my local track using the Predator 212 and I am interested but not sold on the idea of running a $125 engine that was not designed for racing. How long can one expect these so called box stock engines to last without the governor installed ? What is a good RPM to run them at ? safe max rpm ? clutch engagement rpm ?
I really like the idea of running a vintage kart class but something tells me I will be spending more than $600 on the engine department, which is what a LO206 costs.
thanks in advance
KR3
 
There are thousands of these engines running 5K to 6K every weekend all over the country. You will not be breaking new ground.
 
If one does blow up, spend another 99 bucks and buy another. You're racing again and you have a ton of spare parts from the one that failed. You can buy a crank for 32 bucks, a rod for 8. Spend 6 bucks on a pair of stronger valve springs and go have fun.
 
Generally speaking, valve springs are the limiter, without the governor. (Sometimes, with.) Stray too far from stock, other limits show themselves.

Bang for the buck is pretty good, provided little Johnny's dad behaves himself.

Open class racing, much the same. The unspoken agreement to stay close makes for great racing. It only takes 1 500 cc engine to throw all constraints out the window.

Hell, even the rookie class cannot stay under a gentlemen's agreement.


Pick your poison.
 
if you spend $15 on a good set of valve springs and $37 on a cam and know how to build an engine and set your clearance do a valve job and pay attention to details you can run em 6500 rpm without issue.... get the non hemi version... (actually best to have a hemi block & piston and a non hemi head and crankshaft if you are going to turn it over 6k you really need a different flywheel on the non hemi crank there are several $25 options... but a used billet can usually be had for $50... clearances are everything read up on the carb and about any of the new non hemi heads are good enough 27mm intake and 25mm exh..
 
Thanks for the feedback you all. This is being billed as an out of the box, box stock class with no mods , except for governor removal. I will give it some more thought. Still not convinced this would be a better route than a LO206 engine or a WF engine for that matter. Plus they are doing a motor claim instead of going by a set of tech rules.
 
kartracer_3 said:
Thanks for the feedback you all. This is being billed as an out of the box, box stock class with no mods , except for governor removal. I will give it some more thought. Still not convinced this would be a better route than a LO206 engine or a WF engine for that matter. Plus they are doing a motor claim instead of going by a set of tech rules.
Click to expand...

The biggest thing is to run what is being ran at your local track as far as engines, so you have someone to race with. Our track started out with clone motors and all of us have gone to the Lo206 or World Formula(minimum kart and driver weight is heavier for those with the WF). I miss wrenching and modifying the clone engines, but sometimes I don't:) Most of us are getting several seasons out of our engines, just doing valve grinds and running a good high zinc content oil.

My only concern with a box stock no governor class is that stock flywheel. People will invariably mess with the valve springs, revs will go up, and that Chinese cast iron flywheel may turn into a bomb. Of all the clone/predator stock classes/rules I've seen offered, I liked the stock claimer class that allowed an aftermarket flywheel. Flywheel was NOT included in the claim.
It would be optimum to have a rev limiter built into the ignition so that the days of valve float=rev limiter come to an end. By the time to shell out the cash for a L0206 coil and proper flywheel to fit the clone though, plus cost of the clone/predator engine, you're nearly at the cost point for an Lo206.
 
Harbor freight will exchange the engine no questions asked, if you blow it up they will give you a new one.
 
If they find out it was used for racing and was modified, good luck with that. When you bring in blown engine #2 you'll be on their radar for something sly going on. On top of that, blown engines aren't winning races.
 
rkcarguy, "Chinese cast iron flywheel may turn into a bomb" Yes above anything else that was my main concern. I think I will observe for a few races before I make a decision.
jbuffjr, I appreciate the info but no thanks. Sort of tells me what I need to know though. I raced karts off and on for 15 years back in the day and never blew an engine. Mainly because I had some great engine builders back then and I let them do that part while I concentrated on set up and driving. Plus I changed the oil more than I should have and had the engines rebuilt probably more than I should have.
Yea what he said x3 ^^^^^ lol
 
Man... I've never been called a democrat before. MAGA!!

When we were in harbor freight buying the motor the guy told us even if we mod it and blow it up racing to take it back in no questions asked. Not that I would do it I was just repeating what he said
 
kartracer_3 said:
Thanks for the feedback you all. This is being billed as an out of the box, box stock class with no mods , except for governor removal. I will give it some more thought. Still not convinced this would be a better route than a LO206 engine or a WF engine for that matter. Plus they are doing a motor claim instead of going by a set of tech rules.
Click to expand...

I don't know why everyone is in a push to pull the gov... these motors will run all day wide open 5000 ish rpms with the gov in... we run endurance races all day 25 to 30 MILES yes Miles at a time....150-300 laps at a time.... if you want to keep the motors tight... then they stay with the plastic cam and keep the gov in... tech springs and valves and let them run. my.02
 
^^^
You guys are just tweaking the governor linkage with a stiffer spring, or something along those lines correct?
I like that idea, because you aren't depending on valve float for your rev limiter. When we started running 4-cycle at our track(19 turn 3/4 mile asphalt track), getting off the turns was key to a fast lap. As a result we were gearing for acceleration and floating the valves like crazy down the straights. The results were chewed up spring retainers, mushroomed valves(retainer end), and one of my motors was even tempting fate with some light valve marks on the piston. All this after only 3 events. Another guys engine that ran most of the season was almost ready to chew through the stem and drop a valve.
The Predator's pull strong in stock configuration, and using a ~5000 ish RPM limit set by tweaking the governor linkage and checking the maximum RPM post race would be ideal with the intent of the class and the stock flywheel.
 
rkcarguy said:
^^^
You guys are just tweaking the governor linkage with a stiffer spring, or something along those lines correct?
I like that idea, because you aren't depending on valve float for your rev limiter. When we started running 4-cycle at our track(19 turn 3/4 mile asphalt track), getting off the turns was key to a fast lap. As a result we were gearing for acceleration and floating the valves like crazy down the straights. The results were chewed up spring retainers, mushroomed valves(retainer end), and one of my motors was even tempting fate with some light valve marks on the piston. All this after only 3 events. Another guys engine that ran most of the season was almost ready to chew through the stem and drop a valve.
The Predator's pull strong in stock configuration, and using a ~5000 ish RPM limit set by tweaking the governor linkage and checking the maximum RPM post race would be ideal with the intent of the class and the stock flywheel.
Click to expand...

What kind of RPM 's were you turning when you were floating the valves ? and no I am talking about removing governor all together, running on a 1/4 mile dirt oval track .
 
OK I talked to a couple of guys wanting to run the class and now there is talk of going to a stage 2 kit with a billet flywheel and billet rod so no worries about stock flywheel exploding but it does add a little cost to the engine.
Are these stage 2 kits worth it or am I being fed a false promise of a cheap 15hp motor lasting a while ?
 
rkcarguy said:
^^^
You guys are just tweaking the governor linkage with a stiffer spring, or something along those lines correct?
I like that idea, because you aren't depending on valve float for your rev limiter. When we started running 4-cycle at our track(19 turn 3/4 mile asphalt track), getting off the turns was key to a fast lap. As a result we were gearing for acceleration and floating the valves like crazy down the straights. The results were chewed up spring retainers, mushroomed valves(retainer end), and one of my motors was even tempting fate with some light valve marks on the piston. All this after only 3 events. Another guys engine that ran most of the season was almost ready to chew through the stem and drop a valve.
The Predator's pull strong in stock configuration, and using a ~5000 ish RPM limit set by tweaking the governor linkage and checking the maximum RPM post race would be ideal with the intent of the class and the stock flywheel.
Click to expand...

No Tweaking, no spring adjustments.... we just pull the motor from the box... we use a gauge on the plug wire (hand held tach) and set all karts at 4800rpms (the best we can).... with heat, time and vibration.. when we check the top 5 or so at the end of the night.. sometimes they will climb or loose a couple hundred rpms. for the most part its all about driver consistency.. if you get loose you loose time and spots.. on a 4-1 gear ratio we are getting lap speeds around 42mph. Nothing but fun!!
 
The stage 2 allows the racer to open the engine, now you have a situation that is hard to control. I would use a flywheel and springs, stock rod, stock cam, seal lower end, seal head to block.
 
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