Track Tac

Right front tire patch

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bullerman

Member
Watching a video on you tube about right front tire patch. Putting chalk across right front tire. If i chalk all the way across the tire how much of the chalk should be gone after hit laps or a race. Wouldn't you generally want most of the front tire to contact the track.
What about the left front tire. How much of it should contact the track? Nobody says much about it.
 
Thats old school stuff .
I would prefer too have 2" of chalk left on the right .
My experience with this method provided dubiuos results .
 
I assume you are watching Kart Speed Solutions. I have not played with it, but I was thinking it might be a way of quantifying what works. I think it will be different on different chassis and very likely on different tracks. I think that is what he was trying to explain, it is a way of quantifying, but will need to be tested to know how much should be there in a particular situation.
 
Yes that's what I was watching. It seems like in most cases you would want most of the tire on the track. I am going to try it next race. I tried it years ago and haven't thought much about it since then. We are on a flat track.
Any thoughts on the left front.
 
bullerman said:
Yes that's what I was watching. It seems like in most cases you would want most of the tire on the track. I am going to try it next race. I tried it years ago and haven't thought much about it since then. We are on a flat track.
Any thoughts on the left front.
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It's mostly a compromise between patch needed to force the nose of the kart left, versus the drag of more tire, and sidewall flexing.

Roll speed is generally king.

So, the least patch on the ground wins, as long as kart turns.

Edit

Talking right front.
 
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Left front camber has a huge influence on weight jacking to start turn in.

A little less as the steering wheel unwinds to let the kart drive up off the corner.

Al and I had numerous debates about the role of camber on the right front.
Most never let me get to how it affects the left front , but should be able to extrapolate from the information given about the right front.
 
95 shaw said:
Left front camber has a huge influence on weight jacking to start turn in.

A little less as the steering wheel unwinds to let the kart drive up off the corner.

Al and I had numerous debates about the role of camber on the right front.
Most never let me get to how it affects the left front , but should be able to extrapolate from the information given about the right front.
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If I'd add anything , remember the more positive LF camber you add up front, the more you work the RR tire in the end .
 
mike97760 said:
Perhaps (and I believe it's true in most situations) the kart will be faster by running only a certain portion of the RF tire surface on the track. Excessive tire contact with the track is added drag.
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Which is why if you go to race Karts on a big CAR track with long straights you would add RF neg camber , less tire patch. = less drag = more roll speed. As Shaw95 points out roll speed is king Because it helps get you closer to producing MAX MOMENTUM. the kart that MAXIMIZES the most momentum ends up MAXIMIZING FORWARD DRIVE . and
Max Forward drive wins race's 🏆
Also why on that same big car track for racing a kart you would run LESS LF POS camber . Know your saying that makes No sense because in doing so your putting more contact patch on the LF and you would be correct , however you can’t stop thinking there because Less Pos LF camber ends up working the RR tire less which ends up a lot less Drag, so on the LF it's not as much about what it does to the front , its more about what it does to the rear. which = roll speed which = max momentum which = Max FORWARD DRIVE again you see where I'm going.
I Think " MAYBE " again SHAW95 your the INTELLIGENCENT one between us . Am I close ?
 
Pretty much.

Larger radius turn needs less rr weight to accomplish traction needed for stagger to match ground speed to turn radius.

The lf down the straight has little weight, so gain from tire rollout is less.
I know, ounces make pounds. That's where the compromise comes in.

Drag down the straights largest component is in fact the rear stagger fighting each other. High cross mitigates some of this fighting by removing weight, ie traction, at the rr.

Adding traction at the correct part of each lap while maximizing momentum is what tuning a limited hp kart is all about.
 
What parts of the track should you cause weight to move to the RR?

And where or why should you start to move weight from the RR to somewhere else?
I used 'somewhere' else because I'm thinking weight added and used at the RR will not necessarily be next used exactly where it came from.

I'm thinking my usual bs on how stagger works gives reason but not all the reasons for where and when weight needs to be moved.
And I think the discussion on here is blending in the mechanics of how to do it when needed.

I think your comment bringing in ground speed per given radius relates to since were including tires into the mechanics of the chassis for this discussion the fact that "The only thing you know if you go slower is there are less on track forces available to operate your chassis and you will need to do something to make your chassis operate easier". sort of quoting what Greg Hodnett offered to me in a discussion many years ago.

The operation of the chassis moves weight towards the tires and tires determine the direction weight is pushed into the track.
You can get more control and function from a tire with a larger contact patch because there are more places for the tire to direct where weight will be pushed into the track. example: If you need more ability to accelerate you need to use more or better contact across the tire and if you need more side bite you need to use more or better contact laterally around the tire.

.... i'm done my head hurts gota get a coffee
 
(What parts of the track should you cause weight to move to the RR?)...
My thoughts are at turn in and up too mid corner.
I'm no Michael Schumacher but I could feel the phenom transfer just past apex near corner exit . I just never could figure out if it was loading or unloading .
 
Use of the g force tracker on your mychron should tell you if loading, or unloading.

If g force rising, right tire loads are increasing.

If g force dropping, right side tires are unloading.

Use of the formulas I gave in the chassis math thread prove this out.

The cg height plays a role in how much loading or unloading occurs, as well as the spring rate of the chassis helps determine which tire is loading, or unloading.

Just food for thought.
 
What i got from that is on exit . The transfered weight goes back where it came from .
Albeit RC cars are sprung. . Surely still some translation.
 
bullerman said:
Watching a video on you tube about right front tire patch. Putting chalk across right front tire. If i chalk all the way across the tire how much of the chalk should be gone after hit laps or a race. Wouldn't you generally want most of the front tire to contact the track.
What about the left front tire. How much of it should contact the track? Nobody says much about it.
Click to expand...
I am somewhat skeptical of the chalk method just because I think you are trying to measure a multi dimensional factor using a 1d method. I think its a cool way of looking at the contact patch, but I agree with what others have said your contact patch may change even between races depending on the grip level of the track.

Nobody says much about LF because its essentially unloaded alot of the time in an oval kart (and in anything that only turns left). This is the same reason some don't prep it. I only really think about the LF as a way to get load back to the rear tires center off.

I do really enjoy Kartspeed videos and I think he looks at karting/data analysis in a way very very few are right now.
 
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