Track Tac

Rolling wheel measuring device at Amazon.

Quoting a web definition:

"Ignorance implies that a person or group needs to be educated on a particular subject."

The group= most all who have responded in this thread. The person= ?(could be anyone of us). The accusations of ignorance are back and forth between the group and the person. No reason for anyone to get upset or angered. Were all just trying to help each other, by educating each other. ... :)
 
I don't use the ignore button, I just choose not to respond to some people's posts. There are some people that respond to my posts who don't warrant any response. Just like many times people don't respond to my post. I have no understanding of why that is. It definitely doesn't discourage me from offering my help, as useful, or as useless, as it can be.

If someone wants to disagree with my advice, only have to do is read my sig., what they don't need to do is go on and on about my reasons for give any advice, or the inappropriateness of the advice. People that go on and on about what I'm thinking.
 
Al you wrote:

"The fact that people give out setup information about a track they know nothing about makes me wonder. In fact, amazes me."

I don't know what your thinking.

I wrote down my thoughts as they occurred, of why I feel you should not wonder about, nor be amazed when setup information is given, based on little knowledge of a particular track. I think my thoughts were logical and in a good order of presentation. I tried to and think I did cover, some obvious argument points you might make, during the presentation.

You have yet to respond to anyone, with one reason why calculations will present a better baseline for either gearing or stagger, then experience.
 
Al, you wrote and I assume it pertains to me: "what they don't need to do is go on and on about my reasons for give any advice, or the inappropriateness of the advice."

I assume Al, your responding to something I wrote in my Post #39. I'll ask as you so often do, "Show me one place in my post #39, where I either said or indicated what your wrote was inappropriate".

IMHO, you cannot do it because all of what I wrote, was to argue racers on here can offer good information about both gearing and stagger based on experience, with only minor information of a track.

I'm not implying calculations cannot do the same, your incorrect if your assumption is what I wrote has anything in it at all, indicating what you write of how to calculate gearing and stagger is not appropriate.

Al, are you convinced calculations can give a better baseline, then what is presented from experience?

Are you trying to show or find a way to calculate a good baseline? If that's your objective and you do find a way to do it via Google Maps, great!

Expecting racers to measure tracks for you and offer input to you to build a data base, when their experience tells them it is not needed, is folly; it will be met and is being met by resistance. I have a measuring wheel, bought many years ago to measure track radius. I was never able to relate calculations to measurements.

This summer Al, I will measure both Good Hope Speedway and Slippery Rock Raceway and send what I measure to you, via here. I will do it two different ways. One will be my best try at finding a radius through each turn, near where I think radius of LR travel will be. The second will be a measurement of where I think is the actual path the LR, through each turn. I'll try to give you two measurement sets from each track. I will do that for you this summer.

I'll probably do it this summer and report back what I measured on here, just to annoy, even if you say your not interested in what I measure. ... :)
 
paulkish said:
Al, you wrote and I assume it pertains to me: "what they don't need to do is go on and on about my reasons for give any advice, or the inappropriateness of the advice."

I assume Al, your responding to something I wrote in my Post #39. I'll ask as you so often do, "Show me one place in my post #39, where I either said or indicated what your wrote was inappropriate".

IMHO, you cannot do it because all of what I wrote, was to argue racers on here can offer good information about both gearing and stagger based on experience, with only minor information of a track.

I'm not implying calculations cannot do the same, your incorrect if your assumption is what I wrote has anything in it at all, indicating what you write of how to calculate gearing and stagger is not appropriate.

Al, are you convinced calculations can give a better baseline, then what is presented from experience?

Are you trying to show or find a way to calculate a good baseline? If that's your objective and you do find a way to do it via Google Maps, great!

Expecting racers to measure tracks for you and offer input to you to build a data base, when their experience tells them it is not needed, is folly; it will be met and is being met by resistance. I have a measuring wheel, bought many years ago to measure track radius. I was never able to relate calculations to measurements.

This summer Al, I will measure both Good Hope Speedway and Slippery Rock Raceway and send what I measure to you, via here. I will do it two different ways. One will be my best try at finding a radius through each turn, near where I think radius of LR travel will be. The second will be a measurement of where I think is the actual path the LR, through each turn. I'll try to give you two measurement sets from each track. I will do that for you this summer.

I'll probably do it this summer and report back what I measured on here, just to annoy, even if you say your not interested in what I measure. ... :)
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Wow, game on. :)
Actually you just gave me a good idea of how to go about cross-checking my gps accuracy.
Of course all this rubbish discussion goes out the door when you have enough power to induce higher rear wheel slip angles like a UAS or similar. Even a fresh farm dirt track will spin a stockers rear wheels at least on turn entry.
 
From wikipedia:

Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).

[1] The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.
 
alvin l nunley said:
Do you know how inappropriate it is to talk about what's in another person's mind. Or what someone else would do in a given situation. And you must think me ignorant if you think I don't know that tracks are not always perfectly symmetrical.
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You started the ignorant word. I just reused it. But giving the definition someone posted above I would take a strong look into it. I didn't see where I was saying I knew what was in your mind. Just reusing your words.
 
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All this over the length of a field of dirt, how I do it My shoe is 12 " long so I walk heel to toe around the middle of the track and count my steps.......cheapest way and my pre. race walk at the same time.......................
 
paulkish said:
I just searched back and rebsfan4 is correct Al. You stated it was a "new" idea in your post #19.

You Al, are the only person to say measuring a track is a new idea.
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"It sometimes amazes me the resistance I see to new ideas." This is an exact quote. I never said measuring the track is a new idea!
 
alvin l nunley said:
"It sometimes amazes me the resistance I see to new ideas." This is an exact quote. I never said measuring the track is a new idea!
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Mr. Al Since you made that statement on a thread you started about using a measuring wheel (Trundle) to find and/or calculate the distance of the turn radius, one can take that as meaning you having a new idea.

I wouldn't let this whole measuring of the turn bother you so much though. No need to try and reinvented the wheel at this point in the game. Haha get it? Hope all is well with you.
 
alvin l nunley said:
"It sometimes amazes me the resistance I see to new ideas." This is an exact quote. I never said measuring the track is a new idea!
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I'm sorry for pushing an issue with you Al and hope my input if not to your liking was at least a little constructive. I will for now accept we will never agree, that it's possible to calculate a consistently accurate baseline stagger, from a 2D measurement model.

I think it is not possible because I see the use of stagger, to be more of a function of how setup applies the kart to the track, then it is of a measured radius.

Weather I'm right or wrong about your thoughts and ideas, I see you understanding the amount of stagger needed, is more directly related to a radius.

We are too far apart in our views at this time to agree.

I too wish you well and thought I'm trying to bow out now, I suspect in the future i'll see a new way to try to change your view. For both our sake I hope, it occurs a little latter, then sooner. ... :)
 
Is there really an ideal stagger for a particular track? I used to race asphalt cars on a 3/8ths mile track. We ran roughly 2" of stagger depending on the weather. Asphalt sprint cars come to visit and they would run 4" plus on the same track. The radius of the turns didn't magically change when a sprint car rolled out of the pits.
 
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