Track Tac

Rules Interpretation/Clarification

T

Tom_Cely

New member
Given the following situation:

Kart X is running two classes - Junior 2 Clone (purple plate) and Junior Unrestricted Clone (no restrictor plate). Kart X has elected to run the same kart and same engine in both classes - thus having to remove/reinstall the plate and change weights accordingly.

The running order for the night's show has Junior 2 Clone as the 2nd race of the night and Junior Unrestricted Clone as the 8th race of the night.

Kart X places 2nd in the Junior 2 Clone race. There are 10 karts in the race. The 3rd place finishing kart protests Kart X's engine, and Kart X accepts the protest.

As Kart X is running the same kart and engine in a later race, the Tech man allows Kart X's kart to be impounded at the Tech area; and the engine's side plate, head, exhaust, etc are painted by the Tech man. Kart X is allowed to remove the restrictor plate, clean/swap/prep tires, and add weight - all work occurring in the Tech area.

When the Junior Unrestricted Clone race is called to the grid, Kart X moves the kart from the Tech area to the grid for the race. Kart X finishes 1st in the Junior Unrestricted Clone class. There are 10 karts in the Junior Unrestricted Clone class. No protests are filed against Kart X in the Junior Unrestricted Clone class.

Immediately after the Junior Unrestricted Clone class is cleared from the Tech area by the Tech man, Kart X's engine is removed and the Tech man begins the process on the engine. The engine is pronounced disqualified by failing the "piston drop" test (any failure would really suffice for this example, but I wanted to use a "pass/fail", non-opinion test that had nothing to do with the carburetor or the restrictor plate).

Kart X is disqualified from the 2nd place finish in Junior 2 Clone - forfeiting all money and points for a 2nd place finish in that class. All finishers from 3rd thru 10th move up one position in the finish order - receiving all applicable money and points.

Kart X is allowed to retain the money and points allocated to finishing 1st in Junior Unrestricted Clone - even though the same engine used to win the race was subsequently disqualified. The reason given for Kart X being able to keep said winnings was that, since the engine configuration was changed (plate removed), the engine is deemed a "separate" engine from the disqualified engine - thus, requiring a protest by another kart in the Junior Unrestricted Clone class.

What, if anything, is incorrect about this scenario? Obviously, I am looking for what the rules say should happen...not what "common sense" would dictate.
 
The plate being removed and/or reinstalled had nothing to do with the internal components of the engine. How can they say it was a different engine. And why does a protest have to be file in order for tech to be done?
 
In IKF, the engine is painted after qualifying. The paint must be there after the race. I've never heard of anybody being able to tear an engine down in order to run two classes.
 
Steve Vermeer said:
X2!!!
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X3. Fails one, fails all. That is the risk the RACER takes by entering multiple classes with the same kart/engine. You accept that if you do fail one, you fail all. If you did the teardown earlier, you would have the option to fix/replace the illegal part/engine. You run it in multiple classes and tech once...... sorry about your bad luck.
 
There is nothing wrong with running same engine or kart in two classes, its done at many tracks. The plate was removed in tech area and supervised and all was marked...nothing wrong here...if the kart engine was found to be out of specs after 2nd class was ran ,except for plate then driver forfeits all monies and points in any class that was run with that engine for the night. If the plate was the only thing found illegal then he would only be disqualified for the plate class. If an engine in the second event blew up , then it again forfeits all monies and points for any class ran with it because its unable to be teched . That's the chance a person takes for running same motor in multiple classes.

Al...they are not tearing engine down to remove plate its a simple task and done all the time to run multiple classes for Jr classes.
 
Have to disagree with majority here. Key words here "class is CLEARED from tech area by tech man. At this point the Jr unrestricted race is over. When a kart is cleared it is judged legal for that event. In this case Kart X may have got away with one here. But to allow a kart to be re teched would open a BIG can of worms. A lot of things can happen to a kart in the course of an event,or even 1 lap, to go from pass to fail.
 
Al...they are not tearing engine down to remove plate its a simple task and done all the time to run multiple classes for Jr classes
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I have never seen a plate removed either. Not that it couldn't be done upon a special request for a special circumstance - but what would you do for qualifying or heat races? At most tracks, once the first heat race/qualifying is over, the engine is painted/sealed - which includes the carb and plate. Typically, you would not tear anything apart without track official approval/witness after that.
 
alvin l nunley said:
In IKF, the engine is painted after qualifying. The paint must be there after the race. I've never heard of anybody being able to tear an engine down in order to run two classes.
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Happens all the time in plate classes to run different classes. Removing plate only takes a few minuets
 
Response from the original poster

I appreciate everyone's response, opinion, etc. However, nobody has referenced or cited a bonafide rule that says "chunked in one, chunked in all". While I am in full agreement that common sense would/should dictate that line of thinking, is there a rule somewhere that confirms it?

While the scenario I listed is hypothetical (did not actually happen), I did witness an acutely similar scenario over the weekend - and let me add that I, and the race team I am affiliated with, were not affected by the decisions made by those in charge. I kept hearing a "WKA Rule" being used to justify why a disqualified engine from one race was not considered the same engine (even though it was the same engine) in the other race it competed. The justification used was that this "WKA Rule" supposedly stated that by changing the restrictor plate, that made the same engine, in essence, 2 engines - requiring separate protests in each class it competed in order to be considered "disqualified" in each class it competed. As failing the "piston drop" test was actually what disqualified the engine, I did ask if the same piston, rings and head were used in both races. To which the reply was that it did not matter because the restrictor plate change made it a "new" engine, requiring a separate protest in the other class it competed. It didn't make sense to me, but since it didn't affect my team, I didn't push the issue any further. Does anyone know of such a rule from the WKA?

I don't claim to be the most astute engine guy in the world, but I thought AKRA was the governing body for Clone engines. Does anyone know what AKRA's stance is on a disqualified engine being "chunked in one, chunked in all"?

Thanks,
Tom Cely.
 
Target10 said:
Have to disagree with majority here. Key words here "class is CLEARED from tech area by tech man. At this point the Jr unrestricted race is over. When a kart is cleared it is judged legal for that event. In this case Kart X may have got away with one here. But to allow a kart to be re teched would open a BIG can of worms. A lot of things can happen to a kart in the course of an event,or even 1 lap, to go from pass to fail.
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I agree. He gets away with one.

NOW, what would happen if he cleared tech after the first race but got DQ'ed for something checked after the second race, that was not checked after the first??
 


Tom_Cely said:
I appreciate everyone's response, opinion, etc. However, nobody has referenced or cited a bonafide rule that says "chunked in one, chunked in all". While I am in full agreement that common sense would/should dictate that line of thinking, is there a rule somewhere that confirms it? ...
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Tom, you can find the rule in the 2014 WKA TECHNICAL MANUAL

(page 157) SUB-SECTION 751.6.10: ENGINES RUN IN MULTIPLE CLASSES

 
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Mizeracing said:
Happens all the time in plate classes to run different classes. Removing plate only takes a few minuets
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Actually, after I thought about it - the local kart club that I initially started racing at very rarely did tech. Heard many a story of "I forgot to put the plate in, or I had the other series plate in" What did it matter - If there's 20 karts in the field, starting up front is premium. Only after running a track did it occur to me that tech is a whole lot simpler and cheating a whole lot harder when the engines are painted every night.
 
Tom you can find the rule in the 2014 WKA TECHNICAL MANUAL

(page 157) SUB-SECTION 751.6.10: ENGINES RUN IN MULTIPLE CLASSES

This is what I was looking for. I wonder if you, or somebody, would be kind enough to post the rest of what it says about "Engines run in multiple classes". Thanks, in advance!
 
Tom_Cely said:
Tom, you can find the rule in the 2014 WKA TECHNICAL MANUAL

(page 157) SUB-SECTION 751.6.10: ENGINES RUN IN MULTIPLE CLASSES

This is what I was looking for. I wonder if you, or somebody, would be kind enough to post the rest of what it says about "Engines run in multiple classes". Thanks, in advance!
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Tom, I don't feel comfortable posting the actual excerpt from the tech manual ... If you have access to a WKA Tech Manual you can read the rule in its entirety ... the section is only two sentences in length ..... to paraphrase, as other have stated, ..."chunked in one .. chunked in all"


 
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