Track Tac

Rules Interpretation/Clarification

Stoney, I understand what you're saying about copyright infringement. I will find a manual and read it; but I also appreciate your paraphrasing. Thanks!
 
I'm not sure a WKA rule applies unless the track uses wka rules for clones. I am assuming this was Sat nite racin. If it were money racin, the engine would have been teched once for both classes and tossed in both classes. With a protest in one class and not the other, i agree that he gets away with one. Like said before, key words are "cleared tech". JMO
 
It's at the tech mans call with track officials. I protested the motor it for dqed in jr1 then it ran jr2 with a different plate so it becomes a whole new motor. We only run jr1 as my driver is only 7 years old. We had no fight in jr2 but if anyone would have asked i would have told them before they cleared the scales. Once thru the scales with a different plate it has passed tech for that class. If you would like to talk about it i will be more than glad to tell you more in depth about how our"Saturday night tracks run". I know yall traveled a long way and run with us but you have to remember who the track officials are and tech man. We have gotten screwed just like yall. If you want to call me feel free and i641 will talk to you more about it not being an ass u hope it dont come across like that just stating the facts of our local program. 8436419395 Richard
 
LOL.....That's just plain crazy to think a plate can mandate that it is a NEW/DIFFERENT engine. The engine is built upon the same specs with or without the plate.

When we have folks running multiple classes, they have the engines/carbs/heads marked with paint. Matter of fact, we generally mark everything anyways to prevent changes from being made with out notification and/or consent of tech. Once they finish one class they come across the scale to pass the weight check and are sent on their way so they can get ready for the next class. They do so with the understanding that once the checkered flag falls on their last race they come back to tech and the ensuing tech will be for ALL classes they may have placed in a paying position.
 
rebsfan4 said:
LOL.....That's just plain crazy to think a plate can mandate that it is a NEW/DIFFERENT engine. The engine is built upon the same specs with or without the plate.

When we have folks running multiple classes, they have the engines/carbs/heads marked with paint. Matter of fact, we generally mark everything anyways to prevent changes from being made with out notification and/or consent of tech. Once they finish one class they come across the scale to pass the weight check and are sent on their way so they can get ready for the next class. They do so with the understanding that once the checkered flag falls on their last race they come back to tech and the ensuing tech will be for ALL classes they may have placed in a paying position.
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I agree with you Bryan 100% to say it's a COMPLETE different motor just because of different plate is just crazy, it could of been 3 different plates 3 different drivers if anything fails other than the plate itself it's DQed for all 3 classes, as you point out specs for motor are all the same.
 
I agree with yall 100% but the fact of the matter is its the tech mans call and that wasn't me and track officials. It should have been dqed in both but wasn't.
 
If the kart passed tech in the first class and failed in the second class. Then they got away with one because that particular tech item was not performed in the first class. Besides how do we know that this engine is for sure the same engine in both races? Race is over and engine was teched and passed tech according to tech man in the first class. End of story.

Frankie
 
I am surprised how negative some people are about racing multiple classes. I think reasonable effort should be made to allow class jumping. More entries mean more money for track, better racing for participants, and more track time for these Jrs. These kids are the future of the sport.
 
Entry fees were paid for two classes. Race one, claimed, deemed illegal. Dq'd. Race two not claimed, legal. Is what my left brain is telling me. My right brain is saying you dont have to get claimed to be teched. Both sides together came up with once race one is over and they allowed racer x to run race 2 you cannot deem race one out of tech.
If no rule is in place its the tech mans call, the promoter/track owner sticks to that call and thats it. Which should have been covered in drivers meeting.
 
stoney said:
Tom, I don't feel comfortable posting the actual excerpt from the tech manual ... If you have access to a WKA Tech Manual you can read the rule in its entirety ... the section is only two sentences in length ..... to paraphrase, as other have stated, ..."chunked in one .. chunked in all"


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As Jim and others here states, illegal is illegal, I don´t care how many classes the engine is running. Forget other nonsense and tricks, the engine is teched and is illegal for a reason that applies to any class, so illegal and pitiful if he got any money at all for that day. Bottom line is whoever is responsible is rewardind someone for winning when they know his engine was run illegal.
 
Pavehawk said:
Entry fees were paid for two classes. Race one, claimed, deemed illegal. Dq'd. Race two not claimed, legal. Is what my left brain is telling me. My right brain is saying you dont have to get claimed to be teched. Both sides together came up with once race one is over and they allowed racer x to run race 2 you cannot deem race one out of tech.
If no rule is in place its the tech mans call, the promoter/track owner sticks to that call and thats it. Which should have been covered in drivers meeting.
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Rule should of been in place before season even started, NOT the tech mans call at all The Owner / Promoter / Race club Board which ever applies set's the rules being used all the Tech man does is use the rules in place to insure everyone legal, I got the BEST tech man any track could have but he's not dictating rules on the fly, he's left alone to do his job but he knows when it's time to get me involved as well.
 
I just hate the liberal point of view. We just can't be that picky, the rules are too strict, we need the participation, we don't want to hurt the kids, so they broke the rules, so what, can't we just get along.

Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.(Al Nunley)
 
In my experience this would not happen in the first place. The class could not clear until that engine was teched for the second class. If anything it would be a slip up on the tech man and after the fact its over with anyway. People do these changes all the time with the tech man present. Even engine changes but both engine get teched. I would think to if everyone waived tech for the first class which has happened that would be the racers as a group fault. It is a interesting situation.

Forgetting the plate or adding weight has happened more than once to people. We forgot weight at a local race one time when we pulled out the plate to run and were just playing because we were the only kart in the class and they put us with our regular plate class, and that turned out pretty nasty and bad. But was a honest mistake that we had to suck up. People were pretty mad at me over that one.

Ben Braun
 
I think "the engine would have been teched once for both classes and tossed in both classes", is the correct way to handle it.

I think, so I stumble because I'm thinking and not looking where I'm going. ... :)

Is the following a possible reason for it to have happened the way you expressed?

The track pays the tech person and if the track doesn't back up the tech person they will have problems. The tech person being paid is most likely going to get additional pay from the protest for his time. From the scenario it appears to me, only a quick check was the norm unless there was a protest. The tech person decided there only being paid extra to tech one engine, so there only going to pass judgement on one engine. The track backs them up.

PS... If your running for points and your sure putting up money for a tech will get the cheater beating you teched, at many tracks it's too early in the year to put up your cash. When your running for points you need to wait until the tech will do the cheater the most harm and only have them teched if it will benefit you with points. There's no reason multiple racers can't be cheating. I've suspected that cheaters sometimes will show up with a legal engine just to run second or third and protest, ensuring a points championship for themselves. They end up looking good being legal and lock in a points championship. I'll bet nobody's ever heard of rumors where the front runners all of a sudden show up with legal engines and don't run so good, because they knew there was going to be tech. nawwww that stuff never could happen. ... :)
 
paulkish said:
Is the following a possible reason for it to have happened the way you expressed?

The track pays the tech person and if the track doesn't back up the tech person they will have problems. The tech person being paid is most likely going to get additional pay from the protest for his time. From the scenario it appears to me, only a quick check was the norm unless there was a protest. The tech person decided there only being paid extra to tech one engine, so there only going to pass judgement on one engine. The track backs them up.
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I do not suspect the Tech Man had any agenda or vendetta affecting his decision-making. I do not think money or payment for his tech services had any affect either. He did his job thoroughly and to the best of his ability. Further, I do not think there was anything under-handed, sneaky, not on the up-and-up, etc involving the Tech Man, the Promoter, the Track Officials, or the Owner. The only thing that I perceived as questionable was the fact that an identified illegal engine (through Tech from a Protest) was not also deemed illegal for the other class in which it was used. The same piston, rings, and head were used in both classes, and it failed the piston-drop test when it was Tech'ed. As it was found illegal in one class, then by default it was illegal in the other...but the non-protested finish was allowed. Just didn't seem right???

Thanks, though,
Tom Cely.
 
I thought this was all hypothetical. Just move on, that's racing and stuff happens. Makes for a good story on down the road... that's bout all...
 
fails inspection for the plate class....races in and wins the unrestricted class with no protest. rules say "fails one, fails all" ...... some are quick to throw the rule book at you when they protest you, yet will scream that they never saw such a rule if they were being protested. this is a good example of what not to do...if i was the person protesting the plate race, i wouldn't think that the kart would be allowed to compete in any other race until the protest is over.
 
This sounds like an unaffiliated track. At a national, the first 3 karts would be teched as a matter of course and, in this case, would be tossed in both classes. but since this was protest tech, if the kart had been protested in the second class it would have failed, but no one protested.

Some of you are overthinking this deal, in the first post he said that the kart was entered in Jr. Restricted, and Jr Unrestricted, so there's no problem there since both classes are Jr.
Sounds like Saturday night protest tech. Takes me back to the good old days.
Although I'm not sure what "piston drop" actually is. :)
 
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